Is 1/8" wall thickness sufficient for rock rails

[nathanielaz]

I dont know how thick my 2x2 box tubing for my rails should be. I think 1/8" will work but I need to know if this is strong enough to high lift on. Don't want excess weight just to make them indestructable.
TIA

[chadjans]

Kevin uses 3/16 hitch steel, good compromise between weight and strength. What are you trying to do, get ready for woodpecker?
I love it!!
Chad

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[Timzjatl]

I used 1/8 wall 1.5" square tubing for mine, and have had no problems and have beat the crap outta mine. I am sure that thicher would be stronger, but 1/8 is great for me, not a single dent yet.
Tim


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94 ZJ I-6 Laredo, 3" Rancho Springs, Anthony's BB (1.5" rear, 1" front), Warn BD XT Shocks, ARB Front Bumper w/ Warn 9000, Homemade Rear Bumber w/ Tire carrier, Homemade rock rails, Mike Leach Headers, Carsound cat, Dynomax race magnum, 31" BFG MTs on ARE 15x8 Gamblers, Many Other ModsMy Jeep Page

[nathanielaz]

Yes I'm getting ready for woodpecker and phatxj's plans use 1/8" 2x2 box and i've heard a few say they hold up great so i guess thats what I'm using. Any others want to comment

[3RGC]

I made mine from 1/8 stock. I've been to Moab and Ouray for rocks and locally, dirt and tree stumps. They have not dented, or bent. thicker is stronger but could be overkill.
Jerry

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Jerry
95 GC, 3" Kolak Exhaust, K&N FIPK,BB1Z with stock isolators, IAS XL shocks, roof rack tire carrier,31X10.5 BFG-AT-KO's, JKS discos, Midland CB, Hi-Lift roof mount, fr & rr Diff. sliders, rock sliders, Powertrax No-Slip in rear, t/c skid plate, muffler/cat skid plate, ARB Bull Bar, on-board air (ARB), Warpspeed "Y" pipe and building!!!!

[nathanielaz]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matwaz:
The problem you are going to run into with 1/8" wall tubing is the stringers that attach it to the uni-frame will cave the tubing wall in when dropped on a rock. </font>

Matt what are you talking about stringers?
I don't understand.

If you are refering to how I'm attaching it to the pinch seam the box will be welded to 1/4" x 2 angle iron pieces then to 1/8" x 1" angle bolted to the pinch seam with 3/16" x 2" flat stock to the frame (4 tie ins instead of the usual 2)

[brammp]

I built mine out of 3/16". I don't think 1/8" would work for this: click here(mpeg movie, 2MB roughly). In other words, I don't think they'd survive (no dents) using 1/8" walls, unless they were round tubing, and even then...

Oh, and from my metal dealer, he told me that 1/4 is not "stock" material. The price jumps big time from 3/16" to 1/4" metal. So, based on that, you will not find any 1/4" metal in my shop.

Phil

[This message has been edited by brammp (edited 12-20-2001).]

[nathanielaz]

I'm not worried about a little ding here and there just as long as they wont collapse causing body damage. I just did my own little test of hitting 1/8" and 3/16" both neither one of them held up very well to the blow of a small hammer.

Is it the attaching points that I have to worry about deforming causing body damage or is it the rocks themselves gouging and denting. if its the rocks then I might just weld either 2" angle or 2" flat stock to the bottom of it.

[chadjans]

Phil: If i read your response correctly you are saying that round tubing would be stronger than square in each particular guage. i.e. 1/8 round vs 1/8 square. Actually square tubing is stronger than their round counter parts. Almost 50%. This is why clayt is using square tubing in his long arm kits.

Chad

[nathanielaz]

BTT one more time

[whodat]

The thickness of the material has less to do with strength than design. You can overcompensate for simple design with thicker material, however. If you were using a 4x4x1/8 tube, then it would be weak at the center of the 4" span. Design more than material. If you use a 2x2x1/8 tube, then it's gonna be pretty strong. If your mounts are weak, it doesn't matter how strong the material is, the mounts will fail anyway. I'm using 1x2x1/8" wall tubing, siamesed into 1x4" for my rails. My design has a maximum of 1.75" of unsupported 1/8" material exposed to impacts, with a 1/4" rib running down the center and 1/8" ribs on either side. It is extremely low profile, has no low hanging mounts to catch rocks. They are attatched with 5 grade 8 studs through the pinch weld per side, plus two 1x2x1/8 mounts butt-welded to the rails connecting to the subframe for extra vertical rigidity.
whodat


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Lotsa pics

[TheMAXX]

you know... with a Amada Turret press and a Komatsu high def plasma cutter. not to mention 7 forming presses ranging from 125 ton to 350 ton.(not to mention a dozen punch presses) plus 60 weld stations and 6 paint boths. and a steel storage area that holds hundreds of tons of different steel.
maybe i should sit down behind my little Autocad computer and design a few goodies for jeeps. i mean what the hell. i am the one that programs the CNC controls on over half the equipment. i should be able to sneak some homework in on through production control
humm, my engineering wheels are a turning

[This message has been edited by TheMAXX (edited 12-20-2001).]

[Trango]

If you CNC'ed some towhook brackets, people would be on that like black on beans. It wouldn't be that hard: 6 punched holes in some 1/4" metal, one bend in the main piece, and then a mounting bracket with four holes (same centers as the main bracket) and nuts spot welded on back. If you made 10 sets, I guarantee you could sell them all within HOURS.

Bob

[TheMAXX]

tell you what get me the info and i will see what i can do. i could run several in a very short mount of time. even if someone could trace what they have and send them to me.
with what metal thickness you want.
i have designed things from a napkin drawing before.
justgive me specs. i work the floor every other saturday. and can operrate the meachinery if nessesary

[TheMAXX]

1/4 is great i have a bunch of scrap sitting right next to the plasma cutter now.
just need lenght width. and leg length and width hole centers and size.
or if some one can do a quick sketch and email it to me. wouldnt charge but shipping for the prototype.

[John V.]

One other thing to consider would be to use quality tubing if you use hardened stock/chro/moly 1/8" could be ok. If you use mild steel 5/16" would be the smallest. The weight difference is not much between 1/8" and 5/16" (just take one less 6 pack).
Regards, John V.
I'd post my $35 sliders but they were on PhotoPoint.

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John V San Diego, Calif.
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[brammp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John V.:
One other thing to consider would be to use quality tubing if you use hardened stock/chro/moly 1/8" could be ok. If you use mild steel 5/16" would be the smallest. The weight difference is not much between 1/8" and 5/16" (just take one less 6 pack).
Regards, John V.
I'd post my $35 sliders but they were on PhotoPoint.

</font>

What? Carrying 1 5/16" rail is equivalent to 2.5 1/8" rails. There should be a significant weight difference. Especially in steel. 5/16" is awfully thick, too...

Phil

[brammp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chadjans:
Phil: If i read your response correctly you are saying that round tubing would be stronger than square in each particular guage. i.e. 1/8 round vs 1/8 square. Actually square tubing is stronger than their round counter parts. Almost 50%. This is why clayt is using square tubing in his long arm kits. Chad</font>

Are you sure? I'm actually not swayed 100% either way, but I'm just thinking about trying to bend a round tube. I would tend to think that the square would buckle easier if I was trying to bend it in half. I most definately could be wrong in my thinking, but when I look at a round tube and what it goes through to bend in half, there is a great deal of stretching that has to take place in order for it to bend. Square tubing on the other hand, can simply bulge out at the side, and then simply bend. Not really any stretching going on there...

Phil


[This message has been edited by brammp (edited 12-20-2001).]

[KevinF]

Ok, I'll chime in.

1/8" will work just fine, but 3/16" would be better and eliminate any "guessing" or "re-work" if you nail the .120 wall hard enough or build bad mounts (however, with 4 stringers, you can mess up 50% of them and it'll still hold). It's only an extra 1.37lbs/ft for the .188 wall and only 20% more expensive. Just do it right the first time and rest assured that you won't have any problems. Matwaz has somehow scraped about 1/2 the thickness of the steel off on rocks over the last year (you should SEE all the rocks here in AZ with his and my signature on 'em!)...so the thicker stock would be the better choice.

FWIW, round and square tube both have better/worse strength characteristics depending on what sort of testing/pressing/torture you are doing on them. All things held the same, however, NOTHING is stronger than an Isoceles triangle...too bad they don't make triangular steel tubing, LOL!

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[brammp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KevinF:
...All things held the same, however, NOTHING is stronger than an Isoceles triangle...too bad they don't make triangular steel tubing, LOL!

</font>

Group buy, group buy! I hear a new market!

Phil