Introducing myself!

[jpratt0826]

Hi my name is josh and i figured i would give you guys a little background on me. I grew up in Alabama fourwheelin and playing offroad in whatever we could keep running long enough. Well at 18 i joined the service and left home. I am five and a half years into a six year enlistment and am thinking of re-enlisting for another tour.

My good friend and i have both been training for special forces together for about a year and half. I was going to be a survival school instructor and he is trying to become a Combat Controller. Both very hard and demanding jobs within the military. Well long story short i got hurt right before school and had to have surgery to fix it. He on the otherhand is taking off to school this week. Well he decided he was going to give me his jeep. Now i am the proud owner of a 1989 Jeep Cherokee XJ with 4.5 inches of lift and 31X10.5s. It has the 4.0 and automatic tranny.

I have been reading on here for about a week before i decided to register and i have a few questions now.

1.) I have never seen anything like this in my life. When you turn on the right blinker it does not blink and drops the voltage on the meter to around 10 volts. If you leave it the voltage will drop so far that it will stall the vehicle. Could this be the flasher? Has anyone ever seen this problem?

2.) I am also experiencing the death wobble every now and again. I did some reading on here and came up with:
A) out of balance tires or out of round wheels
B) loose track bar
C) worn front end joints
D) Bad alignment
E) Bad castor angle
F) Bad steering stabilizer

Well i checked out the track bar and it seems to be tight. The front end joints i plan to change when i sell of my F-150 to put some toys on the jeep. I dont know what a castor angle is, and how do you check your steering stabilizer? I hope it is not the wheels though. Guess my question is where in the world would be the best place to start on this list to rectify this problem?

I am stationed in south dakota right next to the black hills and cant wait to get it up there and do some offroadin.

[jpratt0826]

Here is two more. Great site I Love it!

['93 XJ Country]

Sweet, I like the two-doors!

Hi, from another new-to-the-forum dude....

[Deadman 94 xj]

Hi there.
#2. BDC

AE as a last resort, never F.

Did you replace the track bar bushings? The bolt might be tight but it wont help if the bushing is bad.

The only real way to check this stuff is to have somebody in the jeep turning the wheels. Get down and look for anything that doesn't look right.

[jpratt0826]

Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj

Hi there.
#2. BDC

AE as a last resort, never F.

Did you replace the track bar bushings? The bolt might be tight but it wont help if the bushing is bad.

The only real way to check this stuff is to have somebody in the jeep turning the wheels. Get down and look for anything that doesn't look right.

I am not so sure i understand the #2 BDC and AE part, but no i have not changed out a thing yet. I am selling off my ford to pay for all the things i need to pick up for the jeep. The very first thing i am going to spend money on is a Haines or Climber manual. Study it cover to cover and then dig into this thing. Just getting my info and ducks in a row before i tear it apart.

[Deadman 94 xj]

Sorry, I was just referencing your original post.

[cheromanche]

Welcome!

Yea, check the track bar. More than likely the problem.

[jpratt0826]

OK got ya! Will get that checked out here really soon. Probably just the bushings huh?

[cheromanche]

More than likely

[jpratt0826]

Have you guys ever heard of this fix?

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/dir...ew/.f0e6f51/50

Refer to post #60 and post #144.

[Deadman 94 xj]

That is a very good read. It describes a lot of what I have gone through (as well as others) trying to figure out death wobble. It shows that not only can the bushing go bad but also the metal can become worn and not seat the bolt tightly. Also points out that rubber might "give" to much for a track bar application.

Here's the post incase that link stops working:

"I Have a 1988 jeep cherokee and a 1999 cherokee and have had the problem with both vehicles. It was a little different for both but very similar. I drove the 88 until the track bar broke. Once it broke the problem was solved. The 99 was much more involved. I bought the jeep from a friend who brought it to the dealership and they told her the wobble was from the UV joints. That right away struck me funny. I know that there are u-joints and cv joints but I never heard of a uv joint, so I laughed when she told me. I though that I would need to were sunglasses because the only UV I have ever heard of was ultra violet light from the sun. Anyway they told her it would cost $1000 to fix, she bought a new car and since I have a press it cost me $30 to fix what they were going to do. the one joint was bad but it wasn't the problem. The track bar seemed fine but i replaced it anyway because i had the problem with it in the past. It got better for about 2 minutes and then was worse than ever. I tightend both ends and found that the end bolted to the axle was loose and I tightend the crap out of it and it got better for a little then went back to the original horrible shake. My friend is a great mechanic and he told me to replace the steering damper. No help. I got underneath and had a friend shake the steering wheel back and forth and found that the track bar end that is bolted to the axle was tight but still had play between the bushing and bolt. This is where I lost it. I pulled the track bar down and found that the factory bolt didn't fit in the metal insert properly. I fabricated a shim to take up the space between the bolt and the metal insert in the bushing that was sheet metal thin. Once I installed it i thought my problems were solved but the shim pushed out the back side of the axle housing bracket. That meant that the play was more than just between the bolt and the metal insert, the axle housing bracket had just as much play in it. I put the stock bolt in it and it confirmed that there was play in the bracket and the busing insert. I went to home depot and bought metric and standard bolts that were similar and larger in size than the original. My final plan was to use a larger bolt and drill out both the axle housing and the insert to a larger size to take up the slack. My concern was that if i drilled the axle housing bigger than stock I would have to do some serious welding to get it back to stock if needed. It was my last hope so I had planned on doing it anyway but to my surprise a fine threaded 7/16 bolt fit perfectly in the housing. No drilling in the housing made me very happy. I took a 7/16 drill bit and drilled out the bushing insert. It was very close, it didn't take much drilling at all to make the bolt fit. No more death wobble. I still have some shake in the wheel that can be attributed to 2 possible causes. 1.) I have driven it so long in this condition that the tires have become cupped (flat spots due to the prior condition) and 2.)the oem rubber bushing allows play because of the nature of rubber. I am going to do 2 things 1.)Replace and balance the front tires. 2.) Install a polyurathane bushing in the axle end of the track bar. I am sure that this will take care of any slight shimmy that is left. It is very drivable the way it is if you choose but I am a perfectionist. So what is the problem and why doesn't it show up when the car is new?
The axle housing is drilled too large from the factory but the bolt is too small to fit properly. The stock bolt fits into the factory track bar busining sleeve perfectly but not into the axle housing. They tighten the bolt so tight that it doesn't show up right away. Once the bolt starts to loosen there is a little play in the axle end and you start to notice the shimmy, which wears out the other end of the track bar and once that happens the death wobble starts. The problem with replacing the track bar is that the bolt housing is wrong and the replacement rack bar doesn't fit to the original bolt like the original track bar does so you cant replicate oem tightness by overtightening the bolt. Once I figured this out the fix took me 15 minutes to fix. I know this message is long and complicated, if you don't understand it don't try to explain it to your mechaninc, print out this message and let him read it. Chrystler really messed this one up and they can't even tell people how to fix it. I have done a lot of research on this and found nothing except that a lot of people are spending a lot of money to fix this problem when it is so simple. I am a backyard mechanic and have never been employed as a mechanic, kinda scary to think that I solved the problem that mechanics and engineers cant seem to figure out. I hope that I have made your headache less than mine. Feel free to contact me with any questions. "

Taken from the link above.

[jpratt0826]

Well am i on the right track? Should i give this a shot when i dig into my XJ or is it not such a great idea, and best to just change the Bushing.

[Deadman 94 xj]

Originally Posted by jpratt0826

Well am i on the right track? Should i give this a shot when i dig into my XJ or is it not such a great idea, and best to just change the Bushing.

I'd say so. As far as replacing the bushing or redrilling the hole I'd wait and see what you get when you turn the wheels. In other words, diagnose the problem first. If the bolt has room to shift around in the hole than you know you'll have to drill it out to a bigger size. You should be able to tell if the bolt isn't snug when you remove the track bar. Just slip the bolt in the hole and see.

Also, you'll want to make sure the metal sleeve of the bushing (inside the bushing) fits snug with the bolt.

So if you drill the hole out to 7/16, make sure that the inner diameter of the sleeve is 7/16.

More popular is a 1/2 sleeve but I'm not sure what track bar you have and I can't remember what bushing will fit in a stock track bar. You'll have to measure.
Here's a good place to find poly bushings if you go that route. They'll have what you need.

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com

[jpratt0826]

Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj

I'd say so. As far as replacing the bushing or redrilling the hole I'd wait and see what you get when you turn the wheels. In other words, diagnose the problem first. If the bolt has room to shift around in the hole than you know you'll have to drill it out to a bigger size. You should be able to tell if the bolt isn't snug when you remove the track bar. Just slip the bolt in the hole and see.

Also, you'll want to make sure the metal sleeve of the bushing (inside the bushing) fits snug with the bolt.

So if you drill the hole out to 7/16, make sure that the inner diameter of the sleeve is 7/16.

More popular is a 1/2 sleeve but I'm not sure what track bar you have and I can't remember what bushing will fit in a stock track bar. You'll have to measure.
Here's a good place to find poly bushings if you go that route. They'll have what you need.

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com

I had my oldest kiddo sit in the jeep and turn the wheels this evening and i didnt see anything out of the ordinary. I didnt see any play in the trac bar either. Everything moved smoothley underneath.

I am planning on putting new tie rods, tie rod ends, drop link, U joints up front. I guess i am going to change these bushings to. I am going to get to all this when i sell my ford. I am wondering though if the wheels may not be the problem. Both fronts have over four ounces of weight on the rim. Do you think this could be my issue?

I am going to rotate the tires in the X pattern this weekend and see if that helps any for now.

[jpratt0826]

Also what exactly does the drop link look like. There is a contraption underneath i am not sure what it is and i think it may be the drop link. It is kind of like the piston sleeves that hold up the rear gate on an SUV black tube with a silver rod that goes into the tube. What is that? I will post a pic tomorrow if need be.

Also what does the drop link do?

[Deadman 94 xj]

Originally Posted by jpratt0826

Also what exactly does the drop link look like. There is a contraption underneath i am not sure what it is and i think it may be the drop link. It is kind of like the piston sleeves that hold up the rear gate on an SUV black tube with a silver rod that goes into the tube. What is that? I will post a pic tomorrow if need be.

Also what does the drop link do?

Ahh, that is the imfamus steering stabilizer.
In my opinion it does nothing. It will "band aid" some loose steering issues but I have not had one perform in any way what so ever. I can't say what exactly they do, but if I had to guess I'd say it helps to dampen bumps on the road. It kind of pushes eveything in the opposite direction that it wants to go, if that makes any sence (don't ask me to explain it haha)
There have been some debates with people that say that they help DW and other issues but those of us that know better will tell you otherwise.

The drop link you're refering to would probably be the Drag link. And that is the "other" bar that is apart of the steering, along with the tie rod. The drag link connects to th pitman arm that comes out of the steering gear box. Sometimes refered to as a "center link".

Also, about the DW, make sure to check the TREs (tie rod ends). Make sure they're all nice and tight. You'll have 4 of them. One on each end of the drag link and the tie rod.
Track bar is probably the issue though.

[89_4x4_cherokee]

Nice to meet you, and NICE Jeep, reminds me of MINE. LOL, I have an 89 XJ 4.0 5 speed SAME color and its 2 door. At least Now I know what my Jeep looked like with a full paint job and looking nice. :p

[Deadman 94 xj]

Originally Posted by jpratt0826

I had my oldest kiddo sit in the jeep and turn the wheels this evening and i didnt see anything out of the ordinary. I didnt see any play in the trac bar either. Everything moved smoothley underneath.

I am planning on putting new tie rods, tie rod ends, drop link, U joints up front. I guess i am going to change these bushings to. I am going to get to all this when i sell my ford. I am wondering though if the wheels may not be the problem. Both fronts have over four ounces of weight on the rim. Do you think this could be my issue?

I am going to rotate the tires in the X pattern this weekend and see if that helps any for now.

Sorry, I missed this one the first time around.
This is a shot in the dark but try removing the steering stabilizer when your kiddo does the test. The steering stabilizer might be pushing things where they're supposed to be. It won't do this while driving so it might be deceiving.

If the track bar is not the issue, you might want to check the wheel bearings. Assuming you're not farmiliar, jack up the front tire and check for lateral play in the wheel. There should be none.

Also, check for play in the upper TB mount.

[jpratt0826]

Cool i am going to get that front end in the air as soon as i get home from work. Let you know if i find anything weird.

[jpratt0826]

I found it! The upper bolt on the trac bar has a lot of play in it. I put the truck up on jacks and when i rotate the tires from side to side to simulate steering left to right the trac bar has all kinds of movement in it.

You guys think changing the bushing out will help or am i going to have to try the fix above?