syntheti oil life, being wasteful?

[Taggart]

Originally Posted by valfam

Are you sure about this? It's hard to belive that they will sale motor oil that does not meet the specs of any manufacture.

AMSOIL seems to be sure about it - they have a section about why they don't meet API specs on their web site.

By the way I have used Mobil 1 10W 30 from Advance auto on my WJ for years and I change it at 4500 miles with a Fram tuff guard oil filter.

You're wasting a lot of money.

[straty1987]

Originally Posted by Taggart

That, and stop wasting your money putting synthetic oil in a Jeep.

you posted this statement twice, so can you give more info on why putting synthetic oil in a Jeep a wast?

Originally Posted by Billy Ray

For What It's Worth.

Amsoil does not meet DC's minimum specs for motor oil nor does it meet the specs of any modern vehicle that I am aware of.


In your place I would use a real brand changed annually.

have read allot of people use AMSOIL and nothing bad has come form it, so have any more info on this or is it one of the things were you don't buy into what they say about it?

what is your definition of a changed annually?

Originally Posted by valfam

Oh I fogot to commit on your question. I would keep using the syn oil and change it one a year. it is recommended to change it more often due to moisture getting into the motor from the temp change up north.

well i live in the north east and one day it can be 60 and another 40, so are you saying more then once a year is needed?

[Taggart]

Originally Posted by straty1987

you posted this statement twice, so can you give more info on why putting synthetic oil in a Jeep a wast?

Because it isn't necessary to maximize the performance and reliability of your engine. Race car engines need the superior properties of synthetic oil, but your engine doesn't. Synthetic oil is definitely a superior product in many ways, but your relatively low-tech, loose-tolerance engine that you operate in relatively benign conditions can't take advantage of its superior properties. You will not realize any measurable increase in performance, reliability or longevity. Those criteria are already maximized for your purposes by fossil oil. So the extra money you are sinking into more expensive lubricants (or more frequent changes) gains you exactly nothing. Your engine will perform the same and last just as long using the cheapest dinosaur oil that meets the manufacturer's spec. When you trade it in or sell it, nobody with a brain is going to give you a penny more because you tell them you used synthetic. Spending money for no payback is the definition of waste.

[straty1987]

Originally Posted by Taggart

Because it isn't necessary to maximize the performance and reliability of your engine. Race car engines need the superior properties of synthetic oil, but your engine doesn't. Synthetic oil is definitely a superior product in many ways, but your relatively low-tech, loose-tolerance engine that you operate in relatively benign conditions can't take advantage of its superior properties. You will not realize any measurable increase in performance, reliability or longevity. Those criteria are already maximized for your purposes by fossil oil. So the extra money you are sinking into more expensive lubricants (or more frequent changes) gains you exactly nothing. Your engine will perform the same and last just as long using the cheapest dinosaur oil that meets the manufacturer's spec. When you trade it in or sell it, nobody with a brain is going to give you a penny more because you tell them you used synthetic. Spending money for no payback is the definition of waste.

OK, I understand were your coming from but conventional oil can never stand up to synthetic when it comes to longevity and ability to handle extreme high temperatures without breaking down. Also it keep the engine cleaner through improved sludge and varnish protection, reduce engine wear at high temperatures with more stable viscosity, protect the engine when it's running under severe conditions at high temperatures and provide better cold-temperature starts with faster oil flow at ignition that improve the fuel efficiency. Synthetics have shown to produce less resistance in the engine and therefore offer the full horsepower and overall efficiency for the engine. You do spend about twice as much on synthetic oil then conventional oil, but it can last twice as long as so instead of two changes you can do one so prices is similar on oil.

[cookieroe]

Originally Posted by straty1987

OK, I understand were your coming from but conventional oil can never stand up to synthetic when it comes to longevity and ability to handle extreme high temperatures without breaking down. Also it keep the engine cleaner through improved sludge and varnish protection, reduce engine wear at high temperatures with more stable viscosity, protect the engine when it's running under severe conditions at high temperatures and provide better cold-temperature starts with faster oil flow at ignition that improve the fuel efficiency. Synthetics have shown to produce less resistance in the engine and therefore offer the full horsepower and overall efficiency for the engine. You do spend about twice as much on synthetic oil then conventional oil, but it can last twice as long as so instead of two changes you can do one so prices is similar on oil.

Taggart point was that our engines don't require, nor really benefit from synthetic oil. He wasn't desputing (in his last post) that synthetics are superior. Now if you have a 2010 Porsche 911 turbo, that would be a different story.

I use it myself, but am I aware that it's "overkill". It makes me sleep comfortably at night, but at the end of the day, it's (mobile1) not necessary.

[Beavis]

Straty (or anyone else) - I'm in the same boat on mileage, though mine is for long weekend trips rather than short/heavy-haul trips. I average about 5k a year as well - so how are you scheduling all the other fluid services? Ie; trans / coolant / tcase / diff's ?

I've done all of the services twice now (around 3yrs and 6yrs), and now getting ready for the 3rd complete change on everything (this week). My jeeps an '01, but just now approaching 55k... figured I'd see how another low mileage jeeper was approaching this since we're way off the service schedule for A or B.

[straty1987]

Originally Posted by cookieroe

Taggart point was that our engines don't require, nor really benefit from synthetic oil. He wasn't desputing (in his last post) that synthetics are superior. Now if you have a 2010 Porsche 911 turbo, that would be a different story.

I use it myself, but am I aware that it's "overkill". It makes me sleep comfortably at night, but at the end of the day, it's (mobile1) not necessary.

lol I understand that but using synthetic oil in our 4.0, 4.7 or whatever you have get a few of the benefits that i talked about above. i believe i have noticed a better cold-temperature starts when its in the - degrees outside and it might help keep the engine cleaner with the sludge/varnish protection but if it dose not i tried to prevent it from happening.

Originally Posted by Beavis

Straty (or anyone else) - I'm in the same boat on mileage, though mine is for long weekend trips rather than short/heavy-haul trips. I average about 5k a year as well - so how are you scheduling all the other fluid services? Ie; trans / coolant / tcase / diff's ?

I've done all of the services twice now (around 3yrs and 6yrs), and now getting ready for the 3rd complete change on everything (this week). My jeeps an '01, but just now approaching 55k... figured I'd see how another low mileage jeeper was approaching this since we're way off the service schedule for A or B.

i do take weekend trips too but when compared to the other stuff its only like 40% or depending on how free friends are. right now going to run the oil to 4000K which is about April/10 moths on the oil, ill see how it comes out and check my filter.

I have a 02 and about to hit the 40K mark, most of the fluids but oil was from when it left the lot new.

i just did the TC and diffs the beginning of the summer which was past due the recommended 30K services mark, it it was the original fluid (8 years old) and did not give me any troubles.

the coolant is recommended 50K or 75K depending on driving. I will be doing mine in the summer of 2010 and its the original fluid but have to go to the dealer or napa for the HOAT coolant

the transmission is 30K or 100K but i want to change the filter so i will also be doing that in the summer of 2010, right now the oil is good and i don't smell any thing burnt. also i will be putting in a shift kit when i do this.

spark plugs are recommended at 30K but i have not had the time to do them and its not running odd so think i will be ok till summer 2010 but if i get a chances before the cold gets in i will do them

as you can see for me its going more by the miles then the months. but have only had it for a bit under 3 years and in the begging did not know this jeep had this much upkeep. my uncle the previews own took it in to the dealer for the 15K services at about 18K and was going to do it at 30K which would of been most of the fluids but he passed away and it spend about 3 years in a garage. that was at the 30K mark and we took it but did not know about the upkeep that came with this jeep.

You can change it when its recommended whether its following the months or the miles but going a bit over is OK. for a peach of mind i try to do it when its recommenced since i dose not move every day and i rather just services it then have a major repair.

[Beavis]

Originally Posted by straty1987

........i rather just services it then have a major repair.

yeah, thats where I'm at with it - rather spend the money for regular maintenance even if it's overkill than run old fluids. Some stuff has to be changed based on time, other is very mileage specific, so I just err on caution and change it all every 3 years - though I'll go longer between oil changes now (had been doing them every 3k miles just based on the length of time between changes). I never had this problem with prior cars, could always just go by mileage, but ever since I got the jeep it's been a 'spare' car for weekends and such, oh well, worse problems to have

[Taggart]

Originally Posted by straty1987

OK, I understand were your coming from but conventional oil can never stand up to synthetic when it comes to longevity and ability to handle extreme high temperatures without breaking down.

So what? You are going to change your oil before longevity is an issue, and your water-cooled engine doesn't operate at "extreme high temperatures." So you just made a good case that synthetics are unnecessary.

Also it keep the engine cleaner through improved sludge and varnish protection, reduce engine wear at high temperatures with more stable viscosity, protect the engine when it's running under severe conditions at high temperatures and provide better cold-temperature starts with faster oil flow at ignition that improve the fuel efficiency. Synthetics have shown to produce less resistance in the engine and therefore offer the full horsepower and overall efficiency for the engine.

How do you "know" any of these things, other than from motor oil manufacturers' advertising? And why do they matter, if the end result is exactly the same? Should I care if the inside of my engine has a little sludge in it, if it has no effect on performance or reliability? Do you not expect that the people who design engines would know that there might be a little sludge accumulation and account for it in their design, so it doesn't matter?

Have you ever put your engine on a dyno and measured the difference in "full horsepower" available when using synthetic vs. fissil oil? Ever seen anyone do it? Ever seen any studies that quantified it? I didn't think so. How much do you think the difference might be (if any?). How much of your driving do you spend at wide open throttle (the only condition at which it will make a difference)? Do you think an extra 2, 3, or 5 horsepower would make a difference worth paying twice as much for oil? If so... you really shouldn't be driving a Jeep.

[cookieroe]

taggart, your point is well taken. We know our Jeeps aren't hand-made, high compression, high precision engines, but we like to know we put the best stuff in them.

Although I really agree with you in that those who believe they are getting an MPG or Horsepower benefit are really kidding themselves.

Ok Mod, I think we beat this into the ground.

cheers