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Thread: BA 10 to AX 15 on the cheap

  1. #1
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    Default BA 10 to AX 15 on the cheap

    I haven't been around too much. My jeep has been parked in my back yard since September of last year because I finally killed the BA10. My rig has 85,000 miles on it so I figure I did pretty good. Let me start by saying I have no money to do this. I just put some dollars in the the girl last year on a 4" lift, new drive shaft u-joints, new cold air intake, new wheels, new tires. I'll get some pictures up at some point so you can see what I'm working on. I have been seeing AX15's on craigslist here locally for $400. I figured even if I bought one for that I wouldn't know what kind of shape its in and would probably have to rebuild it anyway. So I found one that had the input shaft damaged for $60. For $60 I decided I'd take the risk to tear it apart and see if it looked like something I could put back together. I found a AX15 rebuild manual on line and found Moses Ludel's site which does a great job on a rebuild to help me out. I bought a used Harbor Freight 12 ton press for $70 here I go.

    I got lucky last week and found a guy here in town that sold me another AX15 that I could get the input shaft out of. He also threw in:
    external slave bell housing
    shift stub
    shift tower
    shift lever
    a used NP231 to scavenge the 23 spline input gear
    All for $200. That was a great find. That was over $600 in parts right there. I am probably stupid, but being on the cheap I am only going to replace parts I have inspected and measured and know are worn. The sealed bearings rarely go bad on these. All the needle bearings look brand new, no discoloration, no wear marks, all gears look great. Just to make sure I took all the parts to a local shop and the owner concurred that the original tranny was in good shape, so I am basically replacing the synchros only. Everything else will be built from the known good parts of the two trannys I have. I should also mention that both trannys needed a new counter gear. The original tranny was sheered at 5th gear and the donor tranny had reverse gear all chewed up. This place had great prices on parts, so I ordered the counter gear from them:
    http://www.tbtrans.com/

    So far here is what I have ordered and what I have in to it:
    Original AX 15 $60
    Bearing Press $70
    Bearing puller $50
    Donor AX 15 and other parts I listed above $200
    Counter shaft gear $140
    Synchros $50
    Pilot bearing, Seals, throw out bearing, shift fork, Rockauto.com $80
    Master and slave ebay $50
    Total so far $700. Can I really do this for under $1000? We will see.

    Wow, what am I forgetting?
    Last edited by 87yjRAD; 05-20-2011 at 04:10 PM.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

  2. #2
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    Here are a few links to sites that have been invaluable:
    http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f19/y...ite-up-312203/

    http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/b...nv3550-316455/

    http://www.4wdmechanix.com/Jeep-YJ-a...nspection.html

    And a few pics:

    My work room: (i'm going to put links because I like big pictures)
    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/...5a08a2a4_b.jpg

    Parts torn down: I should have taken pics of the tear down process, but the Ludel's web site is so good I didn't bother.

    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5230/...ec4860e4_b.jpg

    I forgot to mention the other part I got in the $200 purchase was the external slave cylinder style bearing retainer which is an expensive part in itself. You can see my new counter shaft, the 23 spline planetary gear I took from the donor TC, input shaft I took from the donor AX15, output shaft torn down, synchros, shift shafts, shift forks, bearings etc.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    Here is a pic of my cleaned up case

    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/...a11b1b86_b.jpg

    I soaked the cases in water and Oil Eater for a couple days and they came out really nice and clean. The bell housing is soaking now.

    The donor tranny output shaft so I remember how it goes back together. I will disassemble this now because I need some synchro keys off of it.

    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/...64908172_b.jpg

    So that is where I am. Today I will get the misc parts going. Ebay auction on the master and slave ends tomorrow, so hopefully no one out bids me on that. I have graduation parties and ceremonies for my son graduating high school the next two weekends so progress will be slow, but I'm excited to get this back together.

    The pilot bearing is something that I have spent a lot of time reading about and have still not come up with a definitive answer. My research shows the 87 with the manual tranny pilot bearing requires a 1.055" OD. The new AX15 input shaft has the 0.75" end. So I am ordering a National Bearing SCE1295. This is a needle type bearing with a OD of 1.0" and an ID of 0.75". I probably won't know for sure until I pull the bearing out, but I think this is what is going to do the job.

    Throw me any questions. I'm no expert that's for sure, but I've read a ton. I'll post more pics as things go. Hopefully I will have this up and running in June some time.
    Last edited by 87yjRAD; 05-06-2011 at 12:47 PM.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

  4. #4
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    for reference, front input shaft oil seal for external slave cylinder type bearing retainer:

    NOK BH2844E, Timkin 223253

    Rear oil seal, output seal

    NOK BC2185F, Timkin 1209

    From this site:

    http://www.timken.com/en-us/products...upto410005.pdf

    I looked these up on Rockauto.com but I wanted to verify they were correct. I pulled the seals from my tranny and got the NOK numbers off of them. Then I crossed reference to Timkin using the site above. The search results on Rockauto were correct. I like the Rockauto site.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    I am almost done with the tranny rebuild. I was a little frustrated last night when I discovered that the new synchro set I purchase from Crown Automotive would not fit in the counter 5th gear properly. I measured the outside diameter of the synchro and it was just ever so slightly bigger then the old synchro that was in there. Fortunately the old synchro was still in really good shape so I went ahead and used it. I hope this doesn't cause any problems.

    this is where I am as of last night.

    http://www.4wdmechanix.com/images/AX-15-175.jpg

    Ready to put the casing back on.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    I got the tranny back together Saturday. Seems to shift nice and crisp. I'm hoping I did a good job, but I won't know until I drive it. Yesterday I pulled the BA10 out, not a hard job. I went to Auto Zone and rented a pilot bearing puller and got the pilot bearing out. That is where I ran in to a wall. The pilot bearing I ordered was two small. The existing pilot was like .87 OD X .58 ID. The pilot bearing I ordered was 1" OD X .75 ID. It would not fit. The existing pilot bearing was actually a two step system. In addition to the pilot bearing there was another sleeve. I used the pilot bearing puller to pull out the sleeve. Now the bearing I ordered was too small. So I was done with the tranny for the day. I need a pilot bearing 1.5" OD X .75" ID. The National Bearing number is FC69907. 1.8161" OD X .75" ID. This is the closest bearing I could find. I may have to bring down the OD slightly to get this to fit but that is my only option. There are only so many bearing sizes with an ID of .75".

    So I cleaned up and started tearing down my NP 231 transfer case. Hopefully I will finish that tonight and get the 23 spline planetary gear in there and get that thing back together. So far so good. I did find the FC69907 at NAPA, I will pick that up today.

    The only question I have now is how the clutch fork works. It looks like there is a spring clip that holds one side of the fork on to a pivot stem Jeep part # 4338855. I don't know if there is anything that holds the other side of the shift fork to the slave cylinder push rod. I may go over to the dealer today and pick up that spring and ask them about the other side of the shift fork.

    Not much activity on this thread. I guess there is just so much information out there about doing this that I'm being redundant, but I still have questions that have not been answered, so until I get everything answered and done I'll keep this going.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    Thanks for the detailed information. I have a friend, with a 1989 Wrangler 258 c.i., contemplating the same swap. I will certainly direct him to your great story here.
    2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 5spd. A/C, Intense Blue: Dual Top Group~RBP AM/FM Cassette, CD Player~Gale Banks Stinger System~Rancho 2-1/2" lift springs~Rancho RS9000X series shocks~Rancho RS5000 series steering stabilizer shock~LT285/75R-16 Wrangler MT/Rs~synthetics throughout

    1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited 4spd., Deep Slate: JET Stage 2 module~Optima Red Top~Rancho 2" lift springs~Rancho RS9000 series shocks~Rancho RS 5000 series steering stabilizer shock~synthetics throughout

    2005 Dodge Ram Power Wagon Quad Cab 5spd., Bright Silver

    1968 Mustang G.T. Fastback 5.0L 3spd., Acapulco Blue

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    Quote Originally Posted by 87yjRAD View Post
    I got the tranny back together Saturday. Seems to shift nice and crisp. I'm hoping I did a good job, but I won't know until I drive it. Yesterday I pulled the BA10 out, not a hard job. I went to Auto Zone and rented a pilot bearing puller and got the pilot bearing out. That is where I ran in to a wall. The pilot bearing I ordered was two small. The existing pilot was like .87 OD X .58 ID. The pilot bearing I ordered was 1" OD X .75 ID. It would not fit. The existing pilot bearing was actually a two step system. In addition to the pilot bearing there was another sleeve. I used the pilot bearing puller to pull out the sleeve. Now the bearing I ordered was too small. So I was done with the tranny for the day. I need a pilot bearing 1.5" OD X .75" ID. The National Bearing number is FC69907. 1.8161" OD X .75" ID. This is the closest bearing I could find. I may have to bring down the OD slightly to get this to fit but that is my only option. There are only so many bearing sizes with an ID of .75".

    So I cleaned up and started tearing down my NP 231 transfer case. Hopefully I will finish that tonight and get the 23 spline planetary gear in there and get that thing back together. So far so good. I did find the FC69907 at NAPA, I will pick that up today.

    The only question I have now is how the clutch fork works. It looks like there is a spring clip that holds one side of the fork on to a pivot stem Jeep part # 4338855. I don't know if there is anything that holds the other side of the shift fork to the slave cylinder push rod. I may go over to the dealer today and pick up that spring and ask them about the other side of the shift fork.

    Not much activity on this thread. I guess there is just so much information out there about doing this that I'm being redundant, but I still have questions that have not been answered, so until I get everything answered and done I'll keep this going.
    Last time I bought a pilot bearing it was an inner and outer. IE the inner was the bearing and it had an outer sleeve to ajust for the different OD
    1990 YJ Stroked and Bored. 3.5"BDS rear, SOA front w/ waggy springs, 2" Bl, 1"MM, DozerDanRockRails, DD gas tank skid, Custom D60 front, Yota Rear, 4.56's, locked F/R, TJ flares, 35" MTR's

    1992 XJ 2 door $46 in scrap
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  9. #9
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    Here is a little more information on my search for a pilot bearing. As I mentioned before the bearing I pulled from my crankshaft had a needle bearing with an ID of .63" to fit the input shaft of the BA10. The OD of that bearing was .83". That needle bearing sat in a sleeve that had an OD of 1.055. So I needed to find a bearing with an OD of 1.055 and an ID of .75 to fit the input shaft of my AX15. I searched for a couple hours last night. I searched the web sites of all the bearing manufacturers I could find, no one made a needle bearing with those dimensions. I did discover however that AMC used a Pilot Bushing with the dimensions I needed. AMC used that Pilot Bushing on several engines from 1970-71 and again from 76-79. Models included the 70-71 AMX with 304 and 390 CI and also the 1968-71 J10 with the 232 CI and the 76-79 Cherokee. Dorman makes a Pilot Bushing #690-038 that is 1.055OD X .75 ID X .75 width. I couldn't find that one in town here, but I did find a Dorman #690-042 which is just a little wider at .83 at O'Rielly's Auto. So I am going with the Pilot Bushing instead of the needle bearing type Pilot Bearing. I hope this helps anyone who is doing this. I know in preparing for this conversion this was my biggest question because I could not find a definitive answer until I actually removed what I had. Your vehicle may vary with the ID depending on the input shaft you have on the AX15 you find but if you have a YJ from 87-91 I believe you will find your OD to be 1.055.

    I also ran across a stumble last night. I had purchased a newer type transfer case, NP 231-J and disassembled it to remove the input planetary gear to use it on my NP 261. I tore down my 261 last night and found out the gear from the 231-J would not work. So I put the 231-J back together and I will have to find the correct input planetary gear for my unit. I'll let you know what I find out. If anyone needs a good TC, 231-J from a Liberty, let me know. Sorry to be so lazy with the pictures. I'll try to take some tonight.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    Wow, I just got off the phone with a tech guy at Novak Conversions. He says I have a NP207. I thought it was a 261 but that is actually the low gear ratio. He says I will not find a 23 spline input shaft for that transfer case. I am going to have to find a NP231 to complete my conversion. I sure didn't see this coming. So if you remember my rambling from above I have a NP231-J, but now I'm finding out that the 231-J out of an XJ does not have the correct set up for the shift levers used on the YJ. Looks like I'm going to be trying to find a 88-95 NP231 that either has a 23 spline or one I can put a 23 spline in. I'll let you know what I find. Oh boy.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    I have been waking up at 4:30AM for a week now thinking about all this stuff. I called the guy that sold me the original 231-J transfer case, he said it was from a Liberty. I have searched for hours trying to find the right seals for this case and can't find them. The shaft size on this TC is much larger then the YJ or TJ. So if I used this TC I would have to find a Liberty drive shaft and have it cut down to size. Not impossible, but not really that easy either. I called the local junk yards and did find a TC from YJ, they want $650 for it. Ridiculous, I can find one off ebay for $250-$300. Fortunately the Craigs List guy I bought all these other parts from called me last night and said he found a TJ transfer case NP231 that another mechanic friend of his has and he will sell it to me for $50. So hopefully I will get my hands on that today and see if it is usable. In all the write ups on the internet I have not seen anyone go through this type of exercise. All I can say is the 1987 YJ is the worst set up ever. I will be glad when this all comes together. One more thing. The NP231 only used a mechanical spedo cable from 88-91, in 92 they started using an electronic pick up to send a signal to the speedometer. This is another thing that I never saw mentioned in any of the write ups I found. ALSO, I will have to convert to a manual system to engage my front axles in to 4WD because they stopped using the vacuum system. Whew I still have a lot to do.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    I met up with my Jeep parts connection last night. Slipped him $50 and got a 2006 TJ NP 231 transfercase with like 6,000 miles on it, a new front bearing for the case, an official Mopar tube of gasket seal and a shorter Rubicon drive shaft. The new transfer case is a couple inches longer then my old one, but I think the shorter drive shaft is going to take care of that. So I'm picking up a transmission mount today and a Variable Speed Sensor to fill the hole in the transfer case. I have to put that part in even though I won't have a speedometer for now. I'll keep this going. I'll get some new pictures tonight.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    I spent about a half hour last night measuring one more time before installing the tranny. I really wanted to use the needle bearing type pilot bearing and not the bushing type. I finally determined that either bearing would work. The smaller pilot bushing would fit in the original position and the bigger needle bearing type would fit in the next out position and sit flush with the inside seat of the flywheel, not flush with the pressure plate surface but the next level down where the flywheel bolts are. I hope you can see what I am talking about with this picture. The bearing I used is a National Bearing FC69907, OD 1.818" ID .7518". I had to take down the bearing just a touch so I put a bolt through it and put it in my drill and took it down with some emery cloth. It fit in nicely. My concern was the bigger pilot bearing would sit out too far and hit the splines of the input shaft or not allow the tranny to pull up to the engine. But I believe there is about 1/8" to spare, so that's the way I went. So the tranny is up.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    the next thing I woke up wondering was about the transfer case and the length of the new TJ case compared to the old NP207. I obtained at TJ driveshaft to go with the TJ NP231. I put the old up to the new and guess what? Exactly 34" on both from the end of the tranny side studs to the end of the drive shaft, sweet.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    This weekend I didn't have a whole lot of time to work on the jeep but I did get the transfer case up. I read on a couple of other build threads that you have to watch out what transfer case you put in. If you use one from a TJ that it is clocked about 10 degrees from the original. I did not see that the position of the 2006 TJ transfer case was any different then the original. It fit in perfectly and the shift lever bracket fit up perfectly. The only difference was the length of the TC is a little longer then the original so the linkage on the shift lever needed to be longer. So I spent a while modifying a set up for the linkage. Yesterday I installed the tranny mount that I thought would work great. It fit perfectly on the four bolt holes on the tranny, but when I put the skid plate up it hit the skid plate cross member. So I had to move the mount forward. I haven't finished that yet. I also ran in to a challenge with the clutch master and slave. The master cylinder with the external slave that I purchased off ebay is too long to fit in behind the brake booster. I am taking both set ups to a local hydraulic shop today to see if they can connect the old master cylinder to the new slave cylinder. Just lots of little challenges at this point that are taking up a lot of time. I'm really close now.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    I went to a local hydraulic shop this morning and had a braided flex line made to go from the old clutch master cylinder to the new slave cylinder. $50. Advanced Adapters makes one: Part number 716130TJH, the cheapest I could find that was $69 plus shipping, so I guess I saved some there. This wasn't an easy transition though. I went to three hydraulic shops and finally the last one had the right part to connect to the pin type connector on the slave cylinder. So if you don't want to run around town you might want to just order the part. I don't see how I could have modified the later model plastic master cylinder to work. It was just too long to fit behind the brake booster. So I have one more stumble hopefully under control.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    Installed the new clutch hose last night. It worked great. Make sure you bleed the line by pushing in the slave cylinder plunger before you install the slave cylinder in the bell housing or you won't be able to get pressure by just pushing in the pedal. Oh, and if you have a hose made it might be better to have a 90 degree angle put up at the top like the Advanced Adapters hose. I didn't do that, it worked fine but it might have been better with the 90.

    I filled all the fluids last night. Penzoil Synchromesh in the tranny. Mobile 1 synthetic ATF in the transfer case. Mobile 1 75/90 in the front and rear axles.

    I'll try to take some pics of my tranny mount modification so you can see what went on there. I like it a lot better then moving the mount forward. For some reason just lining up and drilling the holes to fit the mount down in to the cross member kicked my a**.

    I also had to fix a crack in my fuel tank and weld a bracket back together for my exhaust, little surprises my son left for me while he was driving the YJ.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    oh, the hydraulic line was $48. That has put me at $968.50. Getting close to my limit.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    Sorry I didn't get pictures of the transmission mount. That has been a time vacuum. I got everything in position and tightened it all down and the Transfer Case is just barley hitting the back of the skid plate where it raises up on the edge. I wasn't happy with the way it was setting up. I took the skid plate down again, like 10 times now. I cut a piece of super heavy duty conveyor belt reinforced rubber that I had in my shop and installed that between the tranny mount and the base of the tranny. This raised the tranny up about 3/4 inch. When I put it all together it now looks good. The TC is now up above the lip of the skid plate enough to where I don't think it is going to be a problem and the tranny mount fit better inside the skid plate too.

    I put a couple coats of primer on my drive shaft and **** stub. Tonight the drive shaft goes in and the fuel tank goes back up. Hopefully tomorrow I will have good news to post. Wish me luck.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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    I finished things up last Thursday the 26th enough to take a test drive. I was so nervous to fire the jeep up and pull it out of the garage. It all went fine. Nothing blew up, nothing crunched or ground or leaked. I've been driving back and forth to work all this week with no issues. The AX15 shifts smooth, no grinding, no slipping out of gear. I'm very happy with the out come. It was more work then I thought. I guess most people actually buy a good transmission to begin with. Rebuilding the tranny put a bigger stress level on the project. Then the fact that I had to totally replace the transfer case made this a much bigger deal then I would have imagined. Fortunately it all fell together. My total parts were under the $1,000 budget I set, what more could I ask for. Really though, this would have cost me much more money had I not gotten lucky with Craig's list parts. Hopefully I have a transmission that will last many tens of thousands of miles and be strong enough for playing off road. I still have to work on manually engaging the front axle to 4wd and I don't have a speedometer. Both of these things are minor. I also think the clutch pressure is way too high off the floor and the only way I can see to adjust that is to shorten the length of the slave cylinder plunger. Again, I'll play with that, no big deal. So all in all, the jeep is back on the road within my budget with a very new transfer case and a precisely rebuilt AX15 by my own two hands. I still want to get some pictures up. These last few weeks have been a blur.
    87 YJ, 4.2, Motorcraft 2150, TFI. E-coil, MSD Streetfire CDI, Nutter, miles of vacuum line removed.

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