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Thread: Difference between NV4500 2wd & 4wd??

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    Default Difference between NV4500 2wd & 4wd??

    Is there a difference between a NV4500 from a 2wd and a 4wd? (For a swap, can I get either or must I get one from a 4wd?)
    What would the average street price for a NV4500 be?
    Thanks!
    1976 CJ-5 ~ 4.2L “Straight 6”, T-150 Transmission, Dana 20, 3" Black Diamond Suspension Lift, 4.10 Dana 30/AMC 20 Axles, 33" TSL Super Swampers, Tie Rod Flip, Factory Keyless Entry
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    The differences between 4WD and 2WD versions of the NV4500 are going to be in the mainshaft and the tailhousing.

    Assuming that you are planning on hooking one up to a Dana 300, the ideal NV4500 would be from a 1994 to 1999 3/4 or 1 ton Dodge Ram pickup originally equipped with a gas V8 engine. This will have a 23 spline output on the mainshaft that matches the Dana 300 input gear and the tailhousing will have the same 6 hole round bolt pattern as the Dana 300.

    If you get the NV4500HD from a 1994 to 1999 diesel or V10 powered 4WD Dodge Ram it will have a 29 spline output. You can buy either an adater to the 23 spline input of the Dana 300 or a 29 spline input gear for the Dana 300.

    In 2000 Dodge began using the 29 spline output shaft in all 4WD NV4500s regardless of what engine they were used behind.

    An NV4500 from a 2WD Dodge or any GM will require switching to a Dodge 4WD style mainshaft and tailhousing to mate to a Dana 300. This requires substantial disassembly of the transmission.

    If you can pick up a 2WD or GM style NV4500 cheap enough, it may be financially viable to swap out the mainshaft and tailhousing for the Dodge 4WD versions.
    1982 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler.

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    Input shaft with bearing are around 120-150 range last i looked them up.
    Not hard to change just check end play and set it if not in tolerance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidSilver View Post
    Input shaft with bearing are around 120-150 range last i looked them up.
    Not hard to change just check end play and set it if not in tolerance.
    That is a little bit different subject. The differences between the 4WD and 2WD NV4500s are at the other end of the transmission.

    There are 4 different OEM and 1 HD aftermarket input shafts for the NV4500. 4 of them are interchangeable. Which one you need depends on which engine you are running and how you want to adapt the NV4500 to it.
    1982 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler.

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    It was additional info that he would need to think about when he decides which one he would buy. Like I might get that Gm nv4500 because its 100.00 cheaper, but he is going to run an Amc motor then have to spend 100+ to convert it to use it when he could have just bought the Dodge version.


    Amc motor / Dodge Nv4500 right input shaft.
    Gm motor / Gm Nv4500 right input shaft.

    Just something to think about before you spend your money.

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    There was also a difference in low gear. Early 2wd GM units used a 6.34 first gear. While later GM units and all dodge used a 5.61 first gear.

    When you put it in make sure to add a hole in the shaft for a cotter key or replace and lock tite on the nut that holds the 5th gear to the shaft as it has a reputations for coming loss.
    Wilhelm

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    The NV4500 is relatively large, too. At almost 19" long, plus a bellhousing, it's about the same length as an auto. It may be a little tough to get a decent driveline length in a CJ-5, but if it's for the CJ-6, it will only take tunnel modification. Here's what Novak has to say about it: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/nv4500.htm
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    A few clarifications:

    The 1993-1994 GM NV4500s, both 2WD and 4WD, had the lower 6.34:1 1st gear.

    An NV4500 can be adapted to an AMC engine using either the Dodge or GM style input shaft. It just depends on how you want to go about it.

    The cost of swapping input shafts around is peanuts compared to the cost of swapping mainshafts around.

    The 5th gear coming loose is really only a problem when the NV4500 is used behind the Cummins diesel engines. Seems the power and harmonics of the Cummins engines brings the problem out. It is actually a design flaw in the NV4500 and the only true fix is to rebuild the transmission with a fully splined mainshaft. As far as I am aware, the issue has not manifested itself in transmissions used behind gasoline engines or the GM 6.5 diesels.
    1982 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler.

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    How would you go about using a Gm input shaft version of the NV4500 with a Amc motor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidSilver View Post
    How would you go about using a Gm input shaft version of the NV4500 with a Amc motor?
    By using an Advance Adapters bellhousing that has the AMC engine bolt pattern and mates directly an NV4500.

    The other way to hook up an NV4500 to an AMC engine is to use certain original AMC bellhousings with an adapter plate between it and the NV4500.

    The Dodge input shafts are 1" longer than the GM version.

    By using the AA full conversion bellhousing and a GM style input shaft, the NV4500 is brought an inch closer to the engine, making for a shorter overall engine/transmission assembly.

    Using the adapter plate, which is about an inch thick, moves the transmission that much farther away from the engine and so uses the longer Dodge style input shaft. This obviously creates a slightly longer engine/transmission assembly and leaves that much less room for the rear driveshaft.

    Like I said, it all depends on how you want to go about it.

    I bought an NV4500 from a 1998 2WD Chevrolet pickup with 98,000 miles on it for $600. Then I spent another $700 on the AA bellhousing kit, the AA Dodge 4WD style tailhousing and a Dodge 4WD gas V8 style mainshaft with the 23 spline output. Another $200 to have a local transmission shop go through the transmission and swap the mainshafts. Turns out the input shaft was worn so I found a new one for $75. So for a little under $1600 I have an NV4500 ready to be bolted in between a 401 and a Dana 300. That's probably a pretty realistic budget to plan on.
    1982 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler.

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    Ah i have a NV4500 with a gm shaft and AA bellhousing going on a amc motor.
    When i talked to AA, was told i still needed the dodge main shaft. When it was bought the plan was to use on a LT1 and since things have changed.
    Thanks for the info, now i need to do more research.

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    I'm still trying to figure everything out and learn more of the NV4500. Right now, I have a seller that has a NV4500 from a Chevy 4x4. I'm not sure of the year. I'm going to guess that it has the 5.62(?) gearing. I'll be connecting it to a Vortec 4.3L engine (to be purchased) and its all going into the CJ-6.

    I may be wrong, but from what I understand, the input shaft works because they are both the same make. I am thinking that I will probably attach a Dana 300 to it (to be purchased). I currently have a spare Dana 20 that I can use also, if its possible. So, please tell me what I would need. I believe I will need a different output shaft ($??) and an adapter ($400?) for the Dana 300. Is this correct?

    I want to be able to drive interstate. That is why I want either overdrive or a good tranny.

    Another question...is $500 a good price for the NV4500 mentioned above?
    1976 CJ-5 ~ 4.2L “Straight 6”, T-150 Transmission, Dana 20, 3" Black Diamond Suspension Lift, 4.10 Dana 30/AMC 20 Axles, 33" TSL Super Swampers, Tie Rod Flip, Factory Keyless Entry
    ~~~
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    Some different thoughts....

    As long as it isn't hashed, $500 sounds like a decent deal for that NV4500. Does it include any extra pieces like the original bellhousing, shifter, etc? You can adapt it as is for less than $800 with the Advance Adapters GM bellhousing kit PN 712577 and the Novak NV4500-Dana 300 adapter Kit 453. Shop around at various vendors and you should be able to get those parts for less than MSRP. There are other routes that could be taken, but the one I listed is probably going to be the most cost effective.

    Now that being said, I think an NV4500 is probably overkill for a street driven CJ with a 4.3 liter V6. I would also check into an NV3550. While it lacks the deeper 1st gear of the NV4500, it's still a street friendly 5 speed with overdrive but in a smaller, lighter package that is easier to fit into a CJ yet plenty strong enough to handle that V6.
    1982 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler.

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    It will be street driven, but primarily used on the trails. I plan on putting some 35" tires on it. (Maybe 37s one day.) I want it to drive interstate because I have several friends that live 2 hours up the interstate. It would be nice to see them. My current CJ5 can't drive interstate speeds. (75 mph is speed limit)
    1976 CJ-5 ~ 4.2L “Straight 6”, T-150 Transmission, Dana 20, 3" Black Diamond Suspension Lift, 4.10 Dana 30/AMC 20 Axles, 33" TSL Super Swampers, Tie Rod Flip, Factory Keyless Entry
    ~~~
    1961 CJ-6 RHD Project ~ Down to the frame right now.

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    Another question: Would the bellhousing from a NV4500 from a 1994 Chevy 4x4 fit the Vortec engine or do I still need an adapter?
    1976 CJ-5 ~ 4.2L “Straight 6”, T-150 Transmission, Dana 20, 3" Black Diamond Suspension Lift, 4.10 Dana 30/AMC 20 Axles, 33" TSL Super Swampers, Tie Rod Flip, Factory Keyless Entry
    ~~~
    1961 CJ-6 RHD Project ~ Down to the frame right now.

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    Chevy has been labeling engines as "Vortec" since around '93.

    You're going to need to be more specific like year and/or displacement.

    Edit: I missed the part about the 4.3.

    There can be flywheel clearance issues with the 6.0, but that doesn't apply here.
    Last edited by Snowtow; 07-02-2009 at 03:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobhater View Post
    Another question: Would the bellhousing from a NV4500 from a 1994 Chevy 4x4 fit the Vortec engine or do I still need an adapter?
    Being as the 4.3 V6 shares the same bellhousing bolt pattern as it's bigger V8 siblings, that bellhousing will bolt right up and work just fine.

    BUT (there's always a but, right?) the fly in the ointment is going to be that the 1993-1995 GM NV4500 bellhousings used a slave cylinder mounted on the passenger side of the bellhousing. There is a large portrusion on the lower passenger side of the bellhousing. This isn't an issue with the those trucks as they used a transfer case with the front differential and driveshaft on the driver's side. But for our CJs with front differentials and driveshafts on the passenger side, that portrusion for the slave cylinder occupies the same space that the front driveshaft wants to.

    In 1996 GM changed their slave cylinder and bellhousing designs. This eliminated that portrusion and moved the hydraulic fittings to the driver's side. This set up will work with a passenger side front driveshaft as long as you don't mind the drawbacks of an internal slave cylinder.

    BUT, yet another but, is that in 1996 GM siwtched the bolt pattern on the front of their NV4500s to the same pattern that Dodge used, so a 1996 and later GM style bellhousing will not bolt up to a 1993-1995 GM NV4500.

    To bolt an NV4500 up to that 4.3 and use a passenger side drop transfer case, you'll need either;

    A) A 1993-1995 GM style NV4500 with an Advance Adapters full bellhousing

    B) A 1996 and later GM or any Dodge NV4500 with either the Advance Adapters full bellhousing, the 1996 and later GM style NV4500 bellhousing, or an adapter plate to mount the NV4500 to a standard Chevrolet bellhousing.

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    "To Be Purchased" In that case, find one all in one package, 4.3 and NV3500 tranny. I believe thay were fairly common in S-10's, 1990 and newer. Most of the 1989 model year will have a T-5. You can get a computer that is compatible. I believe that if you get one from a 4x4, all you need is a clocking ring to bolt up a D300. I paid too much for a running wrecked 1989 S10 ($300) as a TBI donor, then found it had the NV3500. Running ugly S-10's are cheap.
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