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Thread: Dana 30 rebuild (again)

  1. #1
    Registered wearethebucs's Avatar
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    Default Dana 30 rebuild (again)

    I KNOW there is a thread somewhere about this but couldn't find it.
    I decided to rebuild my 30 and see how long till she blows apart. I'm just putting new seals and bearings in. On the pinion and ring gear there are numbers. I know there's a number on there somewhere that gives a reference to factory shim thickness. Here's some pictures if they will help. The numbers on the pinion are like this: 7 7 78
    A3R 9
    46 13
    33250
    Ring gear numbers: 7 10 78 DANA E A3D43 32657 46 13 644

    Here's some pictures if they will help.
    Thanks a lot guys


    1979 CJ-5 - 38x12.50 TSL's, DIY beadlocks, SOA, Waggy 44, 14 Bolt, 4:10's, 360, T-150 soon to RIP, Dana 20.

    "Those funny lookin' square headlights just make me giggle"

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    Registered mblackmarr's Avatar
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    You should just keep you original shim pack for each side of the carrier bearings. DO NOT MIX UP THE SHIM PACKS, keep each side seperate. in fact I zip tied my shim packs together once I got them to the right thickness.

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    Registered wearethebucs's Avatar
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    I zip tied my original shim packs together and labeled them left and right. I know that you fought your round with your 30. And I can't remember who mentioned the numbers, but it was something to the affect of +12 or -12...? I'm really just concerned about the pinion bearing shims. Did you just start with the factory thickness and go from there?
    1979 CJ-5 - 38x12.50 TSL's, DIY beadlocks, SOA, Waggy 44, 14 Bolt, 4:10's, 360, T-150 soon to RIP, Dana 20.

    "Those funny lookin' square headlights just make me giggle"

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by wearethebucs View Post
    I KNOW there is a thread somewhere about this but couldn't find it.
    I decided to rebuild my 30 and see how long till she blows apart. I'm just putting new seals and bearings in. On the pinion and ring gear there are numbers. I know there's a number on there somewhere that gives a reference to factory shim thickness. Here's some pictures if they will help. The numbers on the pinion are like this: 7 7 78
    A3R 9
    46 13
    33250
    Ring gear numbers: 7 10 78 DANA E A3D43 32657 46 13 644

    Here's some pictures if they will help.
    Thanks a lot guys


    Ring gear,
    7-7-78 is the date of manufacture.
    46-13 is the ratio, 46 ring gear teeth, 13 Pinion teeth, 3.54:1 gear ratio.
    A3R9 is the Shift, plant and machine the pinion gear was cut on,
    33250 is the part number.

    Ring gear,
    E Refers to 'Eaton'. (Dana/Spicer/Eaton Corporation)
    7-10-78 is date of manufacture,
    46-13 is the gear ratio, 3.54:1
    A3D43 is the shift, plant & machine that cut that gear.
    32657 Is internal part number,
    644 references the carrier flange thickness, or so I'm told.

    There is never any reference to the shim packs on the gear sets,
    Shims were stamped on the housing pads and some times the caps for the differentials.

    Any, or all of this may be BS, but it's what I've read one place or another down through the years.
    REMEMBER!
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    Registered wearethebucs's Avatar
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    Thanks JYG. I have so many things running through my head with this jeep I must've mixed something up with another part or piece. But that IS the fun of it.
    1979 CJ-5 - 38x12.50 TSL's, DIY beadlocks, SOA, Waggy 44, 14 Bolt, 4:10's, 360, T-150 soon to RIP, Dana 20.

    "Those funny lookin' square headlights just make me giggle"

  6. #6
    Registered wearethebucs's Avatar
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    Ahah! I found the thread! I knew I read something about a number stamped in the face of the pinion. Heres the link.
    http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...ht=pinion+shim
    1979 CJ-5 - 38x12.50 TSL's, DIY beadlocks, SOA, Waggy 44, 14 Bolt, 4:10's, 360, T-150 soon to RIP, Dana 20.

    "Those funny lookin' square headlights just make me giggle"

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by wearethebucs View Post
    I zip tied my original shim packs together and labeled them left and right. I know that you fought your round with your 30. And I can't remember who mentioned the numbers, but it was something to the affect of +12 or -12...? I'm really just concerned about the pinion bearing shims. Did you just start with the factory thickness and go from there?
    You are a SMART man! Good COMMON SENSE Tip there!

    You wouldn't believe how many differentials we used to spend hours setting up simply because the owner mixed up the shims!
    I didn't feel a bit bad about charging them full shop price for the time either!

    All they had to do was leave the shims alone...
    Twist tie them in bundles side for side on the carrier, and another twist tie for the pinion set...
    Factory shims will usually get you so close to correct setting that a even a new carrier and gear set will take less than an hour...

    But guys JUST HAVE TO MESS AROUND, loose, shuffle, bend, throw away, or otherwise screw up shim sets, then some poor knucklehead has to spend hours trying to fit things properly again!
    (Usually while the owner has a fit about the cost of the work being done to fix his screw up!)

    Here is a tip,
    One knot tied in the left carrier shim twist tie,
    Two knots tied in the right carrier shim set,
    Three knots in the pinion internal shims,
    No knots in the pinion outer shims, washers, or misc. crap since it's 'Outside' the housing.
    And you will never confuse the shims again!

    There are always twist ties laying around from extension cords and crap you buy, they come in handy for a lot of things... Including using the long ones for shim sets!
    REMEMBER!
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    Registered keith460's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearethebucs View Post
    I know there's a number on there somewhere that gives a reference to factory shim thickness. Here's some pictures if they will help. The numbers on the pinion are like this: 7 7 78
    A3R 9
    46 13
    33250
    Ring gear numbers: 7 10 78 DANA E A3D43 32657 46 13 644
    It goes something like this,

    Pinion Gear
    Mfg Date: July 7, 1978
    Heat No.: A3R 9 (I think)
    Ratio: 46 ring, 13 pinion = 3.54
    Internal No.: 33250

    Ring Gear
    Mfg Date: July 10, 1978
    Heat No.: A3D43
    Internal No.: 32657
    Ratio: 46 ring, 13 pinion = 3.54

    Those numbers have nothing to do with the shims that are installed. Pinion Variance will be marked on the end face of the Pinion Gear. Ring and pinion gear sets are factory tested at a standard setting which is then varied to obtain the most desirable tooth contact pattern and quietest operation. When setting is determined, identifying numbers are etched on the ring and pinion. The ring gear receives one number. The pinion gear receives two numbers which are separated by a + or a - sign. The ring gear number and the first number on the pinion gear identify the gears as a matched set.

    The second number, on the face of the pinion, indicates the pinion position in relation to the centerline of the axle shafts where the tooth contact was best and the operation the quietest. This number represents pinion depth variance and is the amount, in thousands of an inch that the set varied from the standard setting.

    If you are only changing bearings and seals, reuse the original shims that are on both the ring gear carrier and pinion shaft. Reinstall then in the same order as removal.

    If you decide to change gears, get yourself a FSM that explains what is needed to be done. Don't second guess as Ring and Pinion gear setup is probably the most time consuming and laborious part of Jeep repairs.

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    Registered Jeeper80's Avatar
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    wearethbucks,
    Didn't I give you some differential parts? Either a D 30 ring and pinion or diff thrust blocks? Anyway, the number you're looking for is etched on the face of the pinion gear. It will be a "0" or + or - number.
    Jeeper80

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by wearethebucs View Post
    Ahah! I found the thread! I knew I read something about a number stamped in the face of the pinion. Heres the link.
    http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...ht=pinion+shim
    The depth they are talking about should be ETCHED, not 'Stamped' on the back face of the pinion.
    The flat face that faces the differential carrier and cover of the pinion...
    The flat face that does NOTHING.

    Some installers used an engraver to etch the differences between the housing and the pinion depths as gauged with an install rig.

    They really mean nothing much to most of us, since,
    A. They were referenced on a specific factory install rig,
    B. Are just a guide line, and have little to do with what the shim pack actually tuned out to be,
    C. You don't know what the 'Standard' or '0' (zero) thickness shim was from the factory.
    If you don't know that the '0' thickness shim was, then +0.120" or -0.120" doesn't mean much...
    D. Had nothing what so ever to do with the carrier spacing to get the ring gear right in the housing.

    If you are using the same old gears in the same old housing, start with your same old shims.

    If you are switching gears to a different housing, use the pinion shims from the donor, and the carrier shims from your current housing.
    REMEMBER!
    Information you got for free off the internet is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it!
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    I used to be TeamRush, but I'm much better with medication...

  11. #11
    Registered wearethebucs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeper80 View Post
    wearethbucks,
    Didn't I give you some differential parts? Either a D 30 ring and pinion or diff thrust blocks? Anyway, the number you're looking for is etched on the face of the pinion gear. It will be a "0" or + or - number.
    Yep, thrust block for the AMC 20. (Which thankfully is completely together and under the jeep.)

    I'm using all the original gears, carrier, and housing, so I'm to put the original thickness of shims in? Right?

    If it makes any difference there are two 0's etched on the face of the pinion.
    Whew, sorry if this is getting redundant, but R&P stuff IS NOT my specialty.
    1979 CJ-5 - 38x12.50 TSL's, DIY beadlocks, SOA, Waggy 44, 14 Bolt, 4:10's, 360, T-150 soon to RIP, Dana 20.

    "Those funny lookin' square headlights just make me giggle"

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    Registered mblackmarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearethebucs View Post
    Ahah! I found the thread! I knew I read something about a number stamped in the face of the pinion. Heres the link.
    http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...ht=pinion+shim
    Yup man that is the one.....I just printed it off because I am helping my buddy re-gear his axles tomorow. Lot of good info in that thread. and it shows a proper gear wear pattern

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    Registered Jeeper80's Avatar
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    If you are just rebuilding-changing bearings and seals, there should be no reason for you to recalculate your shim packs. Just use the same thickness shim packs as kieth460 suggested then check for a good mesh pattern. Bearings are held to close tolerances so you should be in a very close ball park.
    Jeeper80

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    Quote Originally Posted by mblackmarr View Post
    Yup man that is the one.....I just printed it off because I am helping my buddy re-gear his axles tomorow. Lot of good info in that thread. and it shows a proper gear wear pattern
    Matt, by now you have some experience under your belt but feel free to email or post if you fellas need help.
    Jeeper80

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    Registered keith460's Avatar
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    Photo of etched in numbers


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    Registered mblackmarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeper80 View Post
    Matt, by now you have some experience under your belt but feel free to email or post if you fellas need help.

    Will do Bob. I still can't thank you enough for how much help you were. I mean it when I say I am gonna buy you a fat ribeye. Infact next christmas we are going to be on Kauai for a few days before we go to Iwikuni Japan. So I won't forget ya.

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    Hey Matt, I'm ready, lets hit the shop already!! Just kidding. I'm reading up on all this info becuase I'm doing the same thing today, with ome help of course! The book that mblackmarr lent me, 'JeepCJ rebuildes manual, 1972-1986' by Moses Ludel, is invaluable! And at $24 at Amazon.com, nomally $39.95, it's a steal! Everyone who own's or works on CJ's should have one. Mine will be here on the 3rd of Jan.
    '80 CJ7 258, T4, D 300 w/twinstick, 3" Black Diamond & 1" prothane body lifts, wide trac D 30 & M20,4:10 gears, Aussie lockers front and 'outback', 7500# winch, 33x12.5-15 Maxxis Bighorns, KC Hilites and other shiney stuff..
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2423423
    --------------------------------------------------

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    Quote Originally Posted by mblackmarr View Post
    Will do Bob. I still can't thank you enough for how much help you were. I mean it when I say I am gonna buy you a fat ribeye. Infact next christmas we are going to be on Kauai for a few days before we go to Iwikuni Japan. So I won't forget ya.
    Jeeper80

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