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Thread: 99 WJ Transfer case problem, or not ?

  1. #1
    Registered rwkropp's Avatar
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    Icon313 99 WJ Transfer case problem, or not ?

    Can't seem to get a straight answer for this, from dealer or forums. I have a 99 WJ LTD. 4.7 w/quadradrive 73k. Bout 2 months ago dealer said I needed front and rear seals because of small leak. (not sure which seals) Anyway I had them replaced for $400.

    The next day after picking Jeep up I noticed a grinding noise when turning left and right in tight spots like driveway and parking spots etc. It got worse the more it was driven. Took it back to the dealer and they said transfer case needs replaced. Quoted me $2400 to replace. Thought this was kind of a coincidence that it happed the next day. (BTW while being serviced here Jeep was broken into and now overhead display is cracked and climate control doesnt work on passenger side. Dealer didnt care. Said my insurance would cover it. Yes with a $250 deductible.)

    Anyway, I took it to Cottman transmission for a second opinion and they too confirmed I need new transfer case. Price was $1700 for rebuilt. I found one on web at Transfer Case Express for $750 and had Cottman put it in. When work was complete they called and said it was done but it still grinds on turns.
    But said too bad not his problem.

    I did make sure the special fluid for the 247 case was used by Cottman. Well before this happened I was ready to sell this money pit. Now $1500 later I still have a problem and can't sell. Sorry for the long post but I needed to vent. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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    Not sure but since you WJ was on there property should not they be responsible for any damages or someone breaking into it?Can't help you with the tranny problem but I feel for you.Damn dealer and Cottman sounds like the really bent you over.
    01WJ 6" locked with some doo dads running on 33's MTR kevlars

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    Registered rwkropp's Avatar
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    Yeah, dealer said read the fine print on the back of your work order, "not responsible for lost, stolen or damaged vehicles on our property" and then handed me business card for the police officer that was on this case. A total of six cars were broken into. Luckily mine was the least damage. Dealer said they must of used a slim jim to get in but Im sure they left it unlocked. I keep saying this but this time for sure, I will never have the dealer service my vehicles again!

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    Registered Jim Hef's Avatar
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    Question

    Which front and rear seal did they replace?? Transfer case and tranny or diffs? Did you have diff service done at the same time? The grinding noise could be that the diff fluid doesn't have friction modifier added to it. I would imagine the transfer case would make a similar noise without the proper fluid...how do you know they used it?

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    Just pulled out paperwork from dealer and it lists the following:

    *Front and rear pinion seal
    *Output shaft seal
    *Front and rear differential service w/fluid
    *Transfer case service w/fluid
    also billed for 3 seals, 1 plug, tcase oil, lubricant and brakleen
    Total= $463.73

    It was after this service that the grinding noise started. I did ask them to make sure they used the specific type of fluid that is needed for the nv247 transfer case. The said the did.

    It is possible they didnt add the modifier to the diff fluid, that might explain why new transfer case did not make a difference. Where can I get this modifier? Would it hurt to add if was already added?

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    With the quadradrive system you have the varilock axles which require friction modifer in the diffs, Any indication on the work order that they added any or charged you for some? Dealer has the FM. I would ask them to confirm whether they put any in - if not, have them redo the diff service and see if it goes away. Pretty darn coincidental that this problem started after they did the work.

    I echo Jims remark on the TC -- does your work order show 247 TC fluid listed?
    Y2K 4.7 WJ Limited

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    Icon314

    sounds like they did not add friction modifier to your axles. Go back to the dealer and see if something cannot be worked out with the service manager. As for them not being responsable that is a standard mechanics lein which is why you have to sign a repair order or night drop envelope before they would even move your vehicle. The dealership I work for if we leave a vehicle open and something is missing out of it or damaged they charge us(employees) for the loss or damage. Sorry to hear about your loss though. :shreekz:
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    Registered Jim Hef's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    And, there's a replaced transfer case that may have not been needed!!! Cottman would not have the proper transfer case fluid more than likely, and probably substituted something else rather than running to the Jeep dealer to get it. If the friction modifier does the trick, I would get a D/C service rep on the phone and see about getting some of your work reimbursed, including the damage done on the lot!

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    Thanks for the input guys, there is no friction modifier listed on the work order so I think I'll get the diff service done again. I'll explain to dealer what happened and see if they will cut me some slack on the cost. If that doesn't work Im gonna sell her as is. Were trying to buy a new house and I dont have anymore cash to throw at it. Wish I still had my 96 Cherokee, didnt put a dime into it except regular maintenance. :teary:

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    Registered Jim Hef's Avatar
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    After the diff service is done, and you can determine that friction modifier is added to the fluid, you need to head to a parking lot and do a series of figure 8 turns to mix the fluids together. That will determine whether it is repaired or not. Also, the proper fluid for a 247 transfer case is honey colored, not red, so you can take a look at that also.

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    I would bet a considerable sum that the problem is lack of friction modifier. Take it from someone who has been there:

    Dealer serviced difs, transfer case, and transmission. Shortly thereafter, binding/groaningfrom both axles on tight turns. Back to dealer. Despite my suggesting that they had failed to include the friction modifier they proceeded to replace the transfer case pump twice as well as the rear differential carrier bearings. All of this work was under warranty and charged to Chrysler and it did not eliminate the problem. Finally I escalated the problem to the service manager who put his number one tech on the job. After changing the differential fluid again with the proper friction modifier problem solved. (Note there is also a good chance they used the wrong fluid in the transfer case when they first changed it.)

    This is the kind of shoddy service and diagnosis that discourages me from ever letting a dealer work on my vehicles, especially after they are out of warranty. Of course there are some good dealers with good technicians, but it is a crap shoot. If I can do the work myself, I do it. It is unfortunate but you just can not trust what some dealers tell you.

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    The T-case they took out may not be bad. I would get the old one back, if you have not already.

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    :furious:
    This is the kind of shoddy service and diagnosis that discourages me from ever letting a dealer work on my vehicles, especially after they are out of warranty
    How hard would it be to do the diff service myself and add friction modifier? Are there and special tools required?

  14. #14
    Registered Jim Hef's Avatar
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    Go to the dealer, buy two bottles of FM, suck a few ounces out of each diff, and add the FM to each. While you're under there, check the fluid type in the transfer case. No special tools needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hef
    Go to the dealer, buy two bottles of FM, suck a few ounces out of each diff, and add the FM to each.
    Yep. Pretty simple. The spec is 2.4oz of FM in the front and 3.0oz for the rear. Then drive around an empty parking lot making tight figure-eights to mix in the friction modifier. The noise should gradually fade away and all will be right except for the "pain and suffering" (and monetary damages) they have caused you.

    One final rant. It was bad enough that dealer techs did not know how to service "Quadra Drive" when it first came out in '99, but it's really sad that after 7 years some still don't know what they are doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennhaven
    Yep. Pretty simple. The spec is 2.4oz of FM in the front and 3.0oz for the rear. Then drive around an empty parking lot making tight figure-eights to mix in the friction modifier. The noise should gradually fade away and all will be right except for the "pain and suffering" (and monetary damages) they have caused you.

    One final rant. It was bad enough that dealer techs did not know how to service "Quadra Drive" when it first came out in '99, but it's really sad that after 7 years some still don't know what they are doing.
    I take offense to that comment as when the Quadra Drive came out DC did not know the problems that were going to come out in production the NV 247 fluid came out latter in 99 after a series of oops lets try this and see if it works.
    When I service the diffs on my customers vehicle if it is a Quadra Drive it get FM in the front and rear diffs as well as 75W140 synthetic gear lube in both front and rear axles(most people put in 80w90 which is fine but the pumps in the Quadra Drive axles do not like it much)
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob92xj
    I take offense to that comment as when the Quadra Drive came out DC did not know the problems that were going to come out in production the NV 247 came out latter in 99 after a series of oops lets try this and see if it works.
    When I service the diffs on my customers vehicle if it is a Quadra Drive it get Fm in the front and rear diffs as well as 75W140 synthetic gear lube in the rear(most people put in 80w90 which is fine but the pumps in the Quadra Drive axles do not like it much) and 75w90 synthetic in the front.
    I am concerned about that " ... 75w90 synthetic in the front." part. My FSMs all say Mopar Synthetic Gear Lubricant 75-W140 for the front. Is your comment a typo, or are the FSMs wrong, or what?

    BTW, for the rear they say, as you do, that 80W-90 is fine and add that 75W-140 synthetic is recommended for towing. I assume that 75W-140 synthetic can be used under all conditions and I do use it.
    2001 WJ Limited, 4.7L, Quadra-Drive -- Kenne Bell Supercharger, Stillen Rotors with MM pads (F/R), Addcos (F/R), Kolak 3 inch exhaust with large case MagnaFlow, Rogue Chrome wheels, DRL activated, and Blaupunkt 3.5" dash speakers.

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    In my own Jeep I use 75w140 front and rear, most manuals say 75w90 for the front. My Ram calls for 75w90 for the front and 75w140 rear even when not used for towing. You can use 75w140 for everything, I do except in my Ram and my wifes KJ but her Jeep is nowhere near having the diffs serviced yet.
    I did make a mistake in my earlier post and the Quardra Drives do get 75w140 front and rear, and have corrected it. Thanks oldgeezer for pointing it out to me. I usually check info before I post it but I could not log in earlier.
    The Fleet
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob92xj
    I take offense to that comment as when the Quadra Drive came out DC did not know the problems that were going to come out in production the NV 247 came out latter in 99 after a series of oops lets try this and see if it works.
    When I service the diffs on my customers vehicle if it is a Quadra Drive it get Fm in the front and rear diffs as well as 75W140 synthetic gear lube in both front and rear axles(most people put in 80w90 which is fine but the pumps in the Quadra Drive axles do not like it much)
    No need to take offense, unless you were one of the techs who ignored the tag on diffs that said to add friction modifier. Obviously if Chrysler didn't tell the dealers how to properly service these things when they first came out, that was Chrysler's fault, not the dealer techs. If I remember correctly DC even had a problem with the factory putting in the wrong fluids. But after it was communicated to the dealers that friction modifier was required, after it was published in the FSM (in fact, after it was discussed here) my dealer's techs were still clueless.

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    Is it a 5 STAR dealer, if so you should put in a complait with Chrysler as there have been several courses offered for there techs on axles mainly because of the WJ noisey axles and the newer vehicles drive system are far more advanced. Electrionic LSD's in the WK and XK's, computer controlled 4wd drive systems.
    The Fleet
    92 XJ Rusty's 4.5" lift with spacers and RE Boomerang shackles, Dana 30 with a Lock Right 4.56 gears, 2000 XJ front brakes, Chrysler 8.25 with 2000 XJ axle shafts and Trac Lock, ZJ rear disk brakes, 35" BF Goodrich Mud Terrains, NP 242 case, Borla Header Rusty's 2.5 inch Cat- Back exhaust with Flowmaster muffler, Products for Power High Flow 2.5 inch Cat
    SOLD
    03 Ram 1500 5.9L 4X4 Off Road Package(tow rig) 28570R17 BF Goodrich All Terrains, Flowmaster Dual exhaust
    05 KJ Wife's Jeep 3.7L 42RLE NP 231 Chrysler 8.25
    93 Mustang speed project
    94 XJ new project

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