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Thread: 8.8 FACTS, OPINIONS & HOW-TO'S (F.A.Q.)

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    -DETOUR- Tim's Avatar
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    Here is a guide for the purchase and build-up of the Ford 8.8 rear axle and its compatability and performance in a Wrangler or Cherokee.
    I did a little scrounging around on Jeeps Unlimited and came up with some questions asked and answers given along with some of our experiences. Below there are many links to build-ups and all kinds of info.

    If there are things i missed or mistakes please post a correction and i will change it or add more info to the first post.

    There are many different variations of the Ford 8.8 axle. One of them is best suited for the use in a Jeep and that would be the Explorer (or Mountaineer) 31 spline 8.8. If you have found one off a Aerostar, Mustang, F-150 etc, you should really pass it up and look for a Explorer axle if you wish to retain a similar track width on your Wrangler. Trying to start your build-up with the wrong axle will be frustrating and expensive although you may have picked it up for cheap in the beginning.

    Ford 8.8 assembly specs:
    Cover bolt 28-38 ft.lbs.
    Pinion bearing preload 16-29 in.lbs.
    Pinion bearing preload 8-14 in.lbs (used)
    Ring gear backlash .008-.015
    Ring gear bolt to case 70-85 ft.lbs
    Side bearing caps 70-85 ft.lbs.



    Explorer 8.8 Measurements:
    Weight (complete assembly w/ brakes etc.): 174 lb.
    O.D. of tubes: 3.250".
    Tube thickness: .250" or .188" EDIT: it seems most are .188"
    Ring gear diameter: 8.800".
    Ring gear bolts: 7/16" dia. (qty. 10).
    Pinion diameter/splines: 1.625 / 30.
    Axle shaft/splines: 1.320 / 31.
    Rotor thickness (where it mounts to axle is .250").
    Overall width 59.625" (the F8.8 is .950" narrower then a TJ Dana 35).
    (The F-150 8.8 is drum brake and width WMS to WMS is 65.5”.)
    Hole diameter for ABS sensor in top of housing: .811".
    Bolt size (U-joint flange to yoke) is: 12 x 1.75 x 30 mm
    Centerline of housing to C/L of pinion difference is 3.875" toward the P/S.
    Pinion offset: P/S to C/L of Pinion, 27-3/4" (no rotor on axle), D/S to C/L of Pinion, 31-5/8" (no rotor on axle). (this measurement is 2.5" more offset to the P/S then a TJ Dana 35).

    Specs:
    Code Capacity Ratio
    43 Open 3200 3.08
    41 Open 3200 3.27
    42 Open 4.10
    46 Open 3.73
    45 Open 3200 3.55
    D4 Limited Slip 3200 3.73
    D2 Limited Slip 4.10
    L73 Limited Slip 3.73
    L - Limited Slip Differential
    C - Conventional Differential

    Thanks Chris Overacker for the specs and measurements! see his website link below.

    How many splines are the axle shafts?
    drivers side is 31 spline for 97 & up Mountaineer, 95 & up Explorer, 30-1/2 inch length - 5 X 4.5 inch lug pattern.

    passenger side is 31 spline for 97 & up Mountaineer, 95 & up Explorer, 27-5/8 inch length - 5 X 4.5 inch lug pattern


    Can I get 35 spline shafts? Yes, with a little searching I found 28 and 33 splines too. Remeber 8.8 axles are used on many different Ford rigs. Mustangs, Rangers, F150s, Aerostar etc... different axle lengths than the Explorer so if you are looking for aftermarket products make sure you are not looking at something for a Mustang that might not fit an Explorer. For the 35 spline stuff check with Mark Williams site. i dont have a link yet but i will soon.

    Do I need a slip yoke eliminator? In my opinion, yes

    Can I use my drive shaft that I bought for my SYE/Dana 35 set-up? Yes

    Is the 8.8 narrower than a Dana 35? Yes but not enough to make a difference when running most aftermarket wheels.1.5" shorter or so. It doesn't matter unless you try running stock rims w/12.5 or wider tires.

    Are the 8.8 shafts stronger than Dana 44 shafts? Yes, also the bearings, pinion and ring gear are also much larger.
    Axle shaft Strength and output torque rating by Warn and 4 Wheeler

    The axle shaft strength tested by Warn Ind:
    F8.8= 6,500 (lb. ft.)
    D44= 4,600-5,000 (lb. ft.)
    D35C= 4,000-4,300 (lb. ft.)
    -------------------------------
    COT: Continuous output torque rating
    MOT: Maximum output torque rating

    (Numbers from January edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.)
    Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480
    Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460
    Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600
    Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100
    Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500]

    (thanks joe and Chile99.)

    Will I need that brake proportioning valve from a Rubicon? Probably not

    Does the 8.8 offer more ground clearance over the Dana 35 and 44? Not under the differential but the bigger axle tubes lift the rig about 5/8 ".

    Is there welding involved? Yes, but the new brackets you put on are much stronger than stock Dana’s. Not a good idea to re use your old Dana 35 brackets

    Where do I get brackets?
    4x4 Group Buy has Rubicon Express for.
    Bob Supplee has Tera.
    DC4WD has Tera.

    Carolina Rock Shop (call or email for price quote)
    TeraFlex TMI-ABK-TR
    M.O.R.E. Dana 35 bracket (sku:MORE98700)
    Rubicon Express RE9969 TJ Axle Bracket Kit Rear
    MAD 4WD
    Link to axle bracket placement on Stu Olson's site
    The list above should get you headed in the right direction as far as brackets go. Look around and compare prices as the brackets can be found for $200.00 or less shipped sometimes. Keep this in mind when shopping for any item for your build-up,if you do, you will save a bundle.

    Can I reuse my Dana 35 brackets? Yes, but it is not recomended. The stock Dana 35 brackets are sort of flimsy compared to the beefy aftermarket versions. Some of the brackets available are in fact for Dana 35 axles to replace the weak ones that come factory. Reusing the D-35 brackets is time consuming even if you have the right tools, not a good idea IMO

    Should I weld the axle tubes to the cast housing? I would if it had been salvaged from a wrecked rig. If it is new on a crate (in my opinion) don’t bother.
    (picture of joe dillard's axle tube welds below.)

    Will my stock sway bar work? Yes, with a minor modification to a passenger side pinion gusset.

    Do all 8.8s come with a limited slip? No, read the tag on the housing or remove the cover. 3L73 = 3.73 gears witha "L"imited slip

    Where is the gear break for lockers? There is no break. Same locker for 3.73 to 6.14

    Do I need a notched cross pin? Yes for 4.56-6.14 to clear ring gear, or notch a gear tooth.

    More cross pin info from NovaTJ:
    The 3/4 inch cross pin only fits those rears with the 28 spline count period!
    Therefore, the 7/8 inch crosspin is what we are concerned with and it fits Explorer, Mountaineer, F150, and Expedition's with the 8.8 ring gear and 31 spline axles. It also come in those special Mustangs that have the 31 spline axles i.e. Cobra, Steeda, and Rousch.

    The axles for Jeep conversion we are keen on are the 96 through 2001 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer with disc brakes and all that fall into this category with or without limited slip have the 7/8 inch cross pin.


    Quote Originally Posted by NovaTJ View Post
    Convert from a 28 to a 31 spline??? Need bigger axle tubes too! The bearing on a 31 spline is much bigger than a 28 spline bearing.
    NovaTJ
    What year ford explorers do I look for as a donor for 31 spline and disc brakes? To get rear disc brakes and 31-spline axle, you need to look for a 1995 to 2001 Explorer or Mountaineer. Earlier years use drum brakes and may be 28-spline. Different vehicles may have the wrong bolt pattern, width, spline count, or brakes. A 2-door Sport Explorer may be a donor past the 2001 cut off. Also, Explorer SportTracs with production dates of August 19, 2002 through June 29, 2005 are equipped with 31-spline axles and rear disc brakes and are exactly what was in the previously listed 95-2001 Explorer. Before Aug 19, 2002, the Sport Tracs were equipped with the smaller 28-spline 8.8 axle shafts and used drum brakes. After June 29, 2005, Sport Tracs were produced with an Independent rear as found on 2002 regular Explorers.* Sport-Trac donor info from NovaTJ

    What is so great about 8.8? Parts are everywhere, as in axle shafts, covers, brake parts etc..

    What's not so great about the 8.8? Weak stock carrier, replace with a carrier type locker like ARB or Detroit (not a lunch box type) this will cure the problem.

    Spun axle tubes: Simply weld the tubes into the diff housing before they spin. You are welding to cast steel so now would be the time to ask for a professional's opinion. I have heard of guys tossing the works in a oven before welding, some just go at it cold. Both say their way is right.

    Thin stock diff cover: Get some armor.

    (my axle was new surplus and had not been in a collision, i know exactly where it has been from mile one and it is not welded. I dont believe my wheeling style will cause me problems, however i do keep a close eye on the plug welds.)


    What kind of locker can I get? Thanks Joe
    ARB SELECTABLE AIR LOCKER
    AUBURN GEAR - ECTED ELECTRIC LOCKER
    AUBURN GEAR - HIGH PERFORMANCE LIMITED-SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
    AUBURN GEAR - PRO SERIES LIMITED-SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
    DETROIT LOCKER
    E-Z LOCKER - FITS IN FACTORY NON-POSI CASE
    EATON - ELOCKER SELECTABLE LOCKING DIFFERENTIAL
    EATON - POSI LIMITED-SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
    FULL SPOOL - 31 SPLINE - STEEL
    MINI SPOOL - 31 SPLINE - C-CLIP COMPATIBLE - STEEL
    ORIGINAL STYLE POSI - COMPLETE
    POWERTRAX - LOCK-RIGHT LOCKER - FITS IN FACTORY NON-POSI CASE
    TRUTRAC LIMITED-SLIP


    What is the bolt pattern? 5 on 4.5” just like stock TJ/YJ wheels.

    Will my Jeep lug nuts fit the 8.8? In most cases, yes.

    What do I do with the speed sensor? leave it in place.

    Where to buy?
    Car-part.com
    www.ok4wd.com
    wallysheata, Ariel Performance
    www.alljeep.com
    http://www.rockequipment.com
    to name a few.


    How much do they cost? Free to $1500.00 but you can find them new for around $500.00 in their stock form complete disc to disc.

    What do I need for a swap into a tj?
    Here are some things I used:

    -TeraFlex Bracket kit
    -ARB
    -U.S. Gears 4.56
    -Master install kit (Timken)
    -Crane diff cover
    -Napa brake line kit P/N 380528 (x2)
    -T-hose NAPA P/N 380889
    *TJ Rubicon brake cables 52128428AA and 52128429AA thanks jeepit!
    -ZJ E-brake cables (drivers and passenger side)
    Mopar P/N 52008904 & 52008905
    NAPA P/N 95342 (right) 95347 (left). (not for YJs)
    -Driveshaft adapter: Spicer 2-2-1379
    -Flange bolts Ford P/N N800594-S100 (x4)
    -'03 TJ Rubicon (w/disc) proportioning valve P/N 5083808AA
    -3/16" hard brake line about 40" & 18"

    HELPFUL SITES be sure to check these out:
    Stu-Offroad
    Dome & Detour
    8.8 Swap
    J.E. Towle / DPG Offroad
    Chris Overacker / CODE 4x4
    Stormtrooper
    4x4 Wire Links
    The Ranger Station Tech Library
    The Ranger Station Tech Library 2


    YJ & XJ STUFF:

    From M.O.R.E.
    -XJ Installation Kit P/N 98600 84-2001 XJ
    -XJ E-Brake Cable Kit P/N EB3 Disc Brake F8.8 Only
    -Special Yoke P/N 221379 F8.8 to 1310 U-Joint

    From Dealership:
    -Mopar spring perches
    -Tabs for shock mounts
    -ZJ ebrake cables from the dealer (for XJ install)
    -Flange from spicer dealer $30 (have seen this go from $20-$50)


    :wb:A BIG THANKS TO ALL THOSE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THIS THREAD!!! (whether they knew it or not):wb:

    HELPFUL TIPS:
    (HOPE WE GET MORE HERE SOON)
    Stock brake cables won't come off bracket at tub. Pound a deep 13mm socket on the cable end to compress the fingers holding it in place.
    TIPS FROM NovaTJ:
    Add gear oil through the abs sensor hole at the top. With an 19 degree pinion angle, I just pour three quarts in and call it full.

    To replace axle seals, use the end of the removed axle shaft to pry the seal out.

    Axle shaft bearings...remove the seal first as above, then slide hammer the bearings out.

    Parking brake shoes can make rotor removal a pain after rust sets in, I always machine the inside lip of the rotor (drum section) about 3/8 inch from the edge to the edge about .030 deep so rust won't interfere by dragging on the shoes.

    Old parking brake shoes can have the lining come loose from the metal part of the shoe...reglue with two part epoxy if new shoes not readily available...(it's only a parking brake). Parking brake shoes from Ford...$115 set! Autozone...about $20!

    BENT SHAFT????
    Joe Dillard's 8.8 Shaft Replacement Thread
    Joe Dillard's Super 88 write-up!

    Check out T.Dome's SUPER 88 Write-up on Stu's site!

    Here is a 8.8 DISC BRAKE HOW-TO from Autozone's website. clicky-clicky...

    8.8 PART NUMBERS:
    -8.8 rear parking brake star wheel adjuster. Ford p/n F58Z 2041 A @ 22.98 each.
    Left and right are same part number. (1/08)
    -Rear Caliper Bolts p/n N606046-S60 List $4.10 each (9/06)
    -Flange bolts P/N N800594-S100 $1.29 (x4) (5/05)
    If you have some Ford part numbers you want to ad just pm me.

    Here's a link to jbolty's write up. He is showing a cheap way to get the parking brakes hooked up.
    YJ PARKING BRAKE

    Thanks Jeff!

    [B]This may help you find something in our discussions a little easier. It is not as perfect as I imagined but it is what you got. It should be mostly right. this will take you up to page 44

    8.8 Index:

    btw: this thread has been added to the wrangler F.A.Q.
    Last edited by Tim; 01-06-2012 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    Nicely done Tim!!

    Here's mine in my POS YJ with an ARB & 4.56 Yukon gears. Yep, tubes are welded. I've been running an 8.8 for ~3.5 years with zero issues! Mine came from a '99 Explorer that I got from a local junkyard that included a 1yr/12K written warranty.





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    great post.

    i would also mention the stock cover is very thin, and a cover or guard is highly recommended.
    stock carrier is a weak point
    i watched a DS flange grenade today, and have heard of others, probably a good idea to get a spare if you tend to get on it with 36's +
    -------------
    98 TJ, 4.0,

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    Which would be better in an offroad rig; something like a Crane diff cover or something like an axle girdle like Ford Racing or Moser or Strange. Racers use them for their mustangs, would it benefit the TJ any while off-or on-road? I havent seen anyone ask this question.
    Nik
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dome
    you might run into a clearance problem with the racing cover and gas tank skid depending on what you have. the crane cover for the 8.8 is 1/4" taller (when lying flat) than the stock cover so it may offer more room. i have the crane on mine and there is no rubbage against my kilby skid.
    I think that with all the lift that I am running that I should not have any problems with clearance. Or at least I hope not. But since the girdle ties into the axle itself (forgot where it ties into) but would that help the Jeep out versus just a tougher cover?
    Nik
    02 TJ Sport SOLD

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    Quote Originally Posted by mugreentj
    If I was to buy a 4.0 Jeep with anti-lock brakes, what steps would I need to take to make my 8.8 work on it.
    Don't buy a Jeep with ABS. I've never read anyone claim they've meshed the two ABS systems together. I'm sure it could be done with some engineering, but like I said, I've never seen or heard anyone claim they've done it successfully.

    The problem stems from the fact that the Jeep system uses a sensor and tone ring at each wheel. The Ford Explorer system uses a single sensor and tone ring at the differential. You would need to convert the Ford signal to the Jeep input for the system to function correctly. Or add Jeep sensors and tone rings to the Ford axle.
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    The problem stems from the fact that the Jeep system uses a sensor and tone ring at each wheel. The Ford Explorer system uses a single sensor and tone ring at the differential. You would need to convert the Ford signal to the Jeep input for the system to function correctly. Or add Jeep sensors and tone rings to the Ford axle.[/QUOTE]

    True, true...but the late model Mustang 8.8 with disc brakes uses tone rings on each axle and individual sensors. The Mustang axles are also 31 spline on the disc brake models and may fit the Explorer 8.8. I will be investigating the possibilities when I go to install an 8.8 in my 98 TJ with ABS. Compatible? I'll let you all know...

    Update:8/27/05 I was wrong on the spline count for Mustang. Took apart a 04 and an 05 Mustang 8.8 rear and found both had 28 spline axles; also noted that both axles are shorter or longer than the 8.8 found in Explorer's most likely due to the pumpkin being centered. The ABS tone ring on Mustang axle shafts will not fit the Explorer axle due to the Mustang axle being thinner. Possible machining could correct that, but the ring is so large that you would have to get rid of the parking brake assembly to use it. With regard to adapting the Ford 8.8 axles to accept the Jeep tone rings..too much work as the location on the Dana35 axle where the Jeep tone ring fits is about .035 larger than the 1.625 axle diameter of the 8.8. Also the housing tube that holds the 8.8 axle bearing sticks out about 1.25" which would put the Jeep tone ring into the back side of the axle flange. Recommend if you have a Jeep with ABS, pull both ABS relays out of the power distribution box, remove the ABS bulb from the instrument cluster, and forget that you ever had it.

    NovaTJ
    ...looking for that next project. Next project started...'93 XJ ...totaled! Then a KJ...returned, Proud JK owner now! The build has started!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonM7
    Holy cow that's a nice looking weld - you do that?
    That is a nice looking weld .... looks like it was TIG welded. I've seen quite a bit of TIG welding on axles recently ... the current project on Extreme 4x4 and www.mad4WD.com website to name a couple. I would think that 7018 low-hydrogen rod would be a good choice on the axle tubes. I plan on using MIG on my 8.8 or possibly 7018. Does anyone know the series or type of steel that the axle tubes and pumpkin are made of?


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    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonM7
    Holy cow that's a nice looking weld - you do that?
    As much as I'd like to take credit for it - nope. A local pro welder who builds race car chassis for a living did the welding.

    After my 8.8 was completely stripped of all components and paint/oil (bare metal), it was sanitized and placed in an oven for pre-heat purposes to ~600*F.

    Quickly upon it's removal from the oven, it was TIG welded with a silicone bronze rod mix and allowed to cool accordingly.

    Sure, there are lots of other ways to do it - but this was my choice.

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    Curious, did anyone else have a hell of a time with the flange adapter bolts? Mine felt like they were fine until there was about 1/4 inch left to tighten....I'm thinking rust in the flange holes.

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    This should be useful to others doing an 8.8 swap. I have listed in the file below all the part numbers and manufactures that were using for my buddies 8.8 swap on his 97 TJ. The ones in blue are what we bought. If there are duplicates of an item, it was the more expensive alternative, not necessarily lesser in quality. Or it was an extra that we didn't do (like repalcing the ebrake shoes, or the lugs if you were to make a 5/8" spacer to make the axle the same width as a TJ axle).The dealer actually was cheaper on some items than the auto store. Brake wise we went with cheaper pads and rotors then I would have liked to go with, however cost was a factory here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnjeeper
    Curious, did anyone else have a hell of a time with the flange adapter bolts? Mine felt like they were fine until there was about 1/4 inch left to tighten....I'm thinking rust in the flange holes.
    Mine got rough there toward the end. If you purchased the bolts from a ford dealer, then they likely had locktite on them already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyH
    Mine got rough there toward the end. If you purchased the bolts from a ford dealer, then they likely had locktite on them already.
    They did. Gooey stuff too. Maybe it should be scraped off and normal locktite used.

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    Hummm.....seems to be doing it's job. I left mine as is.

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    What's the lowest price on the Spicer 2-2-1379 anyone has found? I need to buy and extra for a trail spare.
    99TJ, Dana 60's, Titan 4.7L Stroker, Atlas II, etc.

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    i think mine was ~26 at local DS shop.
    -------------
    98 TJ, 4.0,

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnjk
    What's the lowest price on the Spicer 2-2-1379 anyone has found? I need to buy and extra for a trail spare.
    I paid $21 and change at NAPA about 2 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehirner
    I paid $21 and change at NAPA about 2 years ago.
    Napa does not carry the Spicer line any longer. I was told that the Dana corporation is getting away from building items for regular vehicles and going toward industrial grade.

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    After much hard internet searching today, I found the replacement driveshaft adapter in stock and on the shelf of my local Ford dealership. Here is the part number for all to enjoy!
    E9TZ-4782-B

    I tried it tonight and it fits! Cost??? Well, working for Ford helps, but here is the run down...about $15 cost, my price was about 16.50, normal retail is somewhere around $21+

    NovaTJ
    ...looking for that next project. Next project started...'93 XJ ...totaled! Then a KJ...returned, Proud JK owner now! The build has started!

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