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Thread: Torqueflite 727 transmission in a TJ???

  1. #1
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    Default Torqueflite 727 transmission in a TJ???

    Has anyone swapped out the AX15 for the Chrysler Torqueflite 727 in a TJ?
    How did it go? Shifter? Anything else???
    98 TJ I6 / 5-speed / Atlas II / 4" RE lift / Rancho 9000's / Borla Header / 35x12.50x15 BFG MT's / Warn8000i / HiLift / 4.56's / D44 front with Detroit, Super44 rear with Ox / QuickAirII / Toys by Troy roll cage and diff guard, Clayton Long Arms.

  2. #2

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    It's kind of a long transmission. I'm not sure I'd want to put one in without swapping to a V8 or V6 and moving the engine forward.

    ...lars
    www.bc4x4.com - Canada's Biggest 4x4 Site

    Home of the Original YJ FAQ!!!

  3. #3
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    Icon312

    The "stock" automatic in the TJ's (the TF999), is simply a 727 with a little different gearing.
    I just did that swap (removed the AX-15 and swapped in a TF999) a few months back.
    The shifter fits right in where the boot on the manual stick went.
    Basically a bolt in, with some very, very minor wiring.
    You'll have to shorten your front driveshaft and lengthen the rear (always a good thing).



    Fred
    Fred Wilson
    Base - '98 Sahara, 4.0L 6 cyl, Auto (swap from 5 sp)
    Suspension - 4.0" Procomp Springs + 1 1/4" JKS body lift.
    Rear tri-link. Currie J arms in the rear.
    HPD30, front axle, With Currie J-Arms, WJ knuckles, WJ dual piston calibers, Warn Hub Kit, with Warn inners, and CTM u-joints. Cross over, hi-steer.
    Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar.
    Axles & Lockers - Dana30/Dana44 (rear disk conversion); LockRite/Full Detroit; 4.56.
    Drivetrain - AA SYE and CV Driveshaft, Tera 2wd lo.
    Armor - Full
    Wheels - 35x12.50 MT/R's sipped on 15x7 Champion Beadlocks.
    Recovery - Warn XD9000i


  4. #4
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    If you use a 999 seal up the vent in the bellhouing it will suck water if you shift while in deep water I ruined 2 trans in deep water I relocated the vent in top of the transfercase adapter and ran a steel brakeline into the engine compartment
    JUST DRIVE IT !!!

  5. #5
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    Advanced Adapters told me that I would need a 190.00 adapter for the 727 to work properly. They have the info on their site.

  6. #6

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    Originally posted by StealthTJ
    The "stock" automatic in the TJ's (the TF999), is simply a 727 with a little different gearing.
    The 900 series transmissions are both weaker and shorter than the 727 transmissions.

    ...lars
    www.bc4x4.com - Canada's Biggest 4x4 Site

    Home of the Original YJ FAQ!!!

  7. #7
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    Icon312

    Right from the AA catalog:

    page 30
    - 727 Torqueflite (Jeeps 1976-79) - This transmission has a case length of 16.000". Although rarely used within these year, it would have been found in Jeep Wagons and pickups, and used with ....

    page35
    999 / 727 Torqueflite - This transmission can be identifed by a case length of 16".......
    These transmissions are very capable of handling the hoursepower and torque of a Chevy engine..........
    The 1st gear ratio of the 727 is 2.45:1, 2nd 1.45:1, and 3rd is 1:1 and the 1st gear ratio of the 999 is 2.74:1, 2nd 1.54:1, and 3rd is a 1:1....


    page 38
    Torqueflite 999 (30RH & 32RH) - This transmission can be identified by a case length of 16.000"...... This transmission can be found behind a 4.0L engine......




    Fred
    Fred Wilson
    Base - '98 Sahara, 4.0L 6 cyl, Auto (swap from 5 sp)
    Suspension - 4.0" Procomp Springs + 1 1/4" JKS body lift.
    Rear tri-link. Currie J arms in the rear.
    HPD30, front axle, With Currie J-Arms, WJ knuckles, WJ dual piston calibers, Warn Hub Kit, with Warn inners, and CTM u-joints. Cross over, hi-steer.
    Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar.
    Axles & Lockers - Dana30/Dana44 (rear disk conversion); LockRite/Full Detroit; 4.56.
    Drivetrain - AA SYE and CV Driveshaft, Tera 2wd lo.
    Armor - Full
    Wheels - 35x12.50 MT/R's sipped on 15x7 Champion Beadlocks.
    Recovery - Warn XD9000i


  8. #8
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    Stealth TJ, how much shorter is the tf999 than ax15, I am debating this swap. I could get one cheap right now but it is old and doesn't have the cps location on the bell housing and I hate to spend $300 to relocate the cps on the harmonic balancer. I have heard of a couple of people making their own brackets for the cps, but that is a real touchy sensor and will have to be perfect in order for the jeep to maintain timing. Do you know anything about this?
    SOLD: 90 YJ 4.0swap,8.8 rear,dana 44 front, 5.13 gears,37"MTRs, full cage,SOA , Dana300,Tom Wood DS,TJ Flares,RS9000s,M.O.R.E. SRS, 3 link with coils, xd9000i
    2004 WJ Overland

  9. #9
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    Icon312

    The TF999 is a couple of inches shorter than the AX-15.. I had to shorten my front driveshaft and lengthen the rear (always a good thing).
    For what it would cost you to re-locate the CPS, I'm betting that you could locate a TF999 from a late mode HO YJ.
    As you mentioned, the CPS is critical. Without it, or without it working properly, your Jeep won't run
    Check the junkyards, especially those with Jeeps (and search online).
    You should have a problem finding a TF999 from a YJ.



    Fred
    Fred Wilson
    Base - '98 Sahara, 4.0L 6 cyl, Auto (swap from 5 sp)
    Suspension - 4.0" Procomp Springs + 1 1/4" JKS body lift.
    Rear tri-link. Currie J arms in the rear.
    HPD30, front axle, With Currie J-Arms, WJ knuckles, WJ dual piston calibers, Warn Hub Kit, with Warn inners, and CTM u-joints. Cross over, hi-steer.
    Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar.
    Axles & Lockers - Dana30/Dana44 (rear disk conversion); LockRite/Full Detroit; 4.56.
    Drivetrain - AA SYE and CV Driveshaft, Tera 2wd lo.
    Armor - Full
    Wheels - 35x12.50 MT/R's sipped on 15x7 Champion Beadlocks.
    Recovery - Warn XD9000i


  10. #10

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    I still think the 999 is shorter than the 727. That 16" measurement definitely doesn't include the bellhousing or tailshaft. Perhaps the length difference lies outside of the case lengths.

    FWIW, here are some chunks I grabbed from a quick Google search. They indicate that the 900 series of tranmissions ARE different from the 727 and that the sizes are also different:

    "The 904 IS a three speed torqueflite....what do you mean? THe 904 was
    introduced in the early days of slant 6s in compacts, then they decided it
    would hold up ok behind small block 273 and 318s, and then they changed it
    internally by adding clutches, renamed it a 999 (?) and put it behind 360s.
    The bigger 727 started life behind the v-8s in the early 60s (?) and
    eventually was used behind every engine type, including 6s in trucks. The 4
    speed overdrive automatics replaced the 904 and 727, I believe they make the
    newer ones in both sizes, for different truck applications, such as v-6
    dakotas vs 360 1 tons."

    "-The 727 is a longer transmission than the 904 family. Driveshaft length
    would be affected, and I don't know if the M-body floor pan has proper
    clearance for a 727. Driveshaft slipyoke size may also differ."

    "Behind a stock 318 a 900 series transmission should normally do it's job fine, but if you've been having problems and want a stronger transmission a 727 is the way to go. The majority of Fifth Avenues and other M-bodies came with a 900 series transmission. Due to the strain put on them the 727 was a common option in Police or taxi package Diplomats or Caravelle/Gran Furys. Most 360 equipped Ms from '77 thru '81 would have had one aswell. The best vehicles to find a 727 in would be vans, trucks, or older cars.
    When doing this swap keep in mind that the 727 is longer then the 904, so either the driveshaft will have to be shortened or if available one from a donor M-body with the 727 and same rear will have to be used. The driveshaft yoke of the 727 is larger then that of the 904, so it too will have to come from a 727 vehicle (MP also sells this item new)."


    "TF-904/998/727 is a Chrysler tranny that was used for many years in all Chrysler products. The internals exchange easily, but the exterior is AMC only. TF-904 is light duty and was originally used with Chrysler 4 and 6 cyl engines starting 1960, some early 273 V8s also got this tranny. Also some mid-size Chryslers with 318 got this tranny. TF-904 has 3 pinion planetaries and a single wrap rear band. TF-904 was available with in 2 ratios, a wide ratio with four cylinder engines, a standard ratio 904 with sixes. TF-904 uses the same output shaft and seal as the T-4 and T-5. TF-909 used in Jeeps, is a 904 with a lock-up torque converter. TF-998 was only used behind the 258 only in the Eagle. All other 258s in cars got the TF-904 TF-998 was used in all 304s in cars starting from '72 except some HD applications which got the TF-727. TF-998 originally used with Chrysler small V8s (318). TF-998 has a larger front servo, 4 pinion planetaries and a double warp rear band. This was the original lock up converter tranny. TF-999 originally used with 360 Chryslers, possibly also in later FSJs. TF-999 is same as 998 except for 5 plate front clutch, wider front band. TF-998/9 can be indentified from the 904 by the two external ribs on the case above the rear servo. TF-727 is a very heavy duty transmission, can hold almost anything, but on the downside is very heavy, and in this way considered inappropriate by some for drag racing use. TF-727 was also available as a heavy duty option in big cars with a 6 cyl. and Wagoneers with 6 cyl '80-'83 and Grand Wagoneers from '84-'87. TF-727 was used in Jeeps from '80 - '92. TF-727 case is 16" long and 14 bolts hold in the pan. Gear Ratios 2.45(1st) 1.45(2nd)) 1.00(third). "


    "A-727 3 speed "Torqueflight" used with 340, 360, 383, 400, 440 & Hemi engines.
    Dimensions: Length: 38.13" front case to yoke centerline. 34.39" Case only.

    A-904 3 speed light duty transmission used with /6 and small v8's
    Dimensions: Length: 34.12 front case to yoke centerline, 30.50" Case only.

    A-998 904 Derivative beefed up for use with 318 engines.
    A-999 904 Derivative strongest 904 type transmission for use with 360 engines.

    A-727
    Introduced in 1962. It is a 3 speed unit with a slip spline output shaft for the years 1965+. This transmission came behind most performance small blocks (340 & 360) and all big blocks (361, 383, 400, 440, 426 Hemi). There is a difference between the small block and the big block cases so they do not interchange.

    A-904, 998 ,999
    The 904 is a light duty version of the 727 and is smaller in size and lighter in weight. It was used mainly with the /6 and 273 engines. The 998 is a heavier duty version designed for the 318 engine. The 999 is the heaviest of the 904 type transmissions and was used behind 360 engines in 1974 - 1979. The drive shaft yoke on the 904 series transmissions is smaller than the 727 so they are not interchangeable. The length is also shorter than the 727 so if you want to swap in a 727 for your 904 drive shaft shortening is necessary."
    ================

    Other things to consider are:
    a) the extra length necessitated by the bellhousing adapter and
    b) the width of the 727 vs the 999. You might have driveshaft clearance issues.

    On my 999, when I indexed the tcase, I had to grind off part of the tranny housing (I'm running an unflipped Dana 300).


    ...lars
    www.bc4x4.com - Canada's Biggest 4x4 Site

    Home of the Original YJ FAQ!!!

  11. #11
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    Bellhousing and rear extensions can be whatever length you want them to be. They bolt onto the tranny itself. Both *TRANSMISSIONS* are the same length. The 727's from '76 ~ '79 Jeeps are the same length as the 999's (bellhousing and rear extension)
    The 999's out of TJ's are fully capable of handling the HP and torque of Chevy V8's...



    Fred
    Fred Wilson
    Base - '98 Sahara, 4.0L 6 cyl, Auto (swap from 5 sp)
    Suspension - 4.0" Procomp Springs + 1 1/4" JKS body lift.
    Rear tri-link. Currie J arms in the rear.
    HPD30, front axle, With Currie J-Arms, WJ knuckles, WJ dual piston calibers, Warn Hub Kit, with Warn inners, and CTM u-joints. Cross over, hi-steer.
    Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar.
    Axles & Lockers - Dana30/Dana44 (rear disk conversion); LockRite/Full Detroit; 4.56.
    Drivetrain - AA SYE and CV Driveshaft, Tera 2wd lo.
    Armor - Full
    Wheels - 35x12.50 MT/R's sipped on 15x7 Champion Beadlocks.
    Recovery - Warn XD9000i


  12. #12
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    stealth, what kind of minor wiring did you have to do. Also, how do you hook up the lock up converter and can you put a toggle switch in it to lock it up manually? I'm looking to do this swap in the spring and am trying to do all my homework. Also, I would need to get a flywheel out of an auto correct? Anything else that I should know that isn't fairly obvious? The NP231 should bolt right up right?
    Josh
    http://www.josh.myjeeppage.com

    99TJ Sahara: 39.5's, fullwidth, locked, etc

    2002 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD, daily driver/tow rig

  13. #13
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    Wiring up the electronic solenoid for the torque converter lockup is one of the two minor wiring things that you have to do. The other is wiring up the backup light switch. Both are minor.
    You're right in that you need the flexplate (it's not a flywheel in an auto) for the automatic. You'll also need a CPS for it.
    There's a handful things that you'll need:
    - Tranny with torque converter
    - Flexplate
    - Brake pedal assembly
    - Shifter
    - Shifter and kickdown cables
    - CPS
    - Shifter tunnel mount
    - Xfer case angle bracket (it's different for the auto tranny than the manual)
    - Tranny mount to skid mount plate
    - Probably a new tranny mount
    - Tranny cooler and lines to plumb it, (you'll need/want the original tranny cooling lines for the fittings)
    - Switch for the torque converter lockup
    - NSS connector
    - Seal extension for the tranny output
    - Shortened front driveshaft and lengthened rear driveshaft
    Probably some other small things that I've forgotten. Oh, tranny temp gauge.
    Check with me when you're ready.

    The tranny will bolt up to your xfer case, but the output shaft on the auto tranny is a little shorter than the output shaft on the AX-15. Not to worry. Tera makes a seal extension ($15.00).
    I wired the lockup for the torque converter to a switch in the cab.
    Here are some photos:
    - Removing the old output seal from the tranny.

    - New seal installed. You can see that it extends out about 1/2".. There is wood dust on the shaft from the wooden piece used to seat the seal. It'll be cleaned off.

    - The two little connectors that require some minor wiring. The NSS/Backup switch, above the '0' in the '08' portion of the date, and the connector for the torque converter lockup above the last '2 in the '02' part of the date

    - Lastly, where I mounted the switch for the lockup converter. I'm just putting the black middle trim piece back into place














    Fred
    Fred Wilson
    Base - '98 Sahara, 4.0L 6 cyl, Auto (swap from 5 sp)
    Suspension - 4.0" Procomp Springs + 1 1/4" JKS body lift.
    Rear tri-link. Currie J arms in the rear.
    HPD30, front axle, With Currie J-Arms, WJ knuckles, WJ dual piston calibers, Warn Hub Kit, with Warn inners, and CTM u-joints. Cross over, hi-steer.
    Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar.
    Axles & Lockers - Dana30/Dana44 (rear disk conversion); LockRite/Full Detroit; 4.56.
    Drivetrain - AA SYE and CV Driveshaft, Tera 2wd lo.
    Armor - Full
    Wheels - 35x12.50 MT/R's sipped on 15x7 Champion Beadlocks.
    Recovery - Warn XD9000i


  14. #14

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    Originally posted by StealthTJ
    Bellhousing and rear extensions can be whatever length you want them to be. They bolt onto the tranny itself. Both *TRANSMISSIONS* are the same length. The 727's from '76 ~ '79 Jeeps are the same length as the 999's (bellhousing and rear extension)
    The 999's out of TJ's are fully capable of handling the HP and torque of Chevy V8's...
    Fred, I agree with you about the strength of the 999. Mopar guys seem to be fine with running it behind a V8.

    As for the bellhousing, on my 999, it most definitely is part of the transmission housing. It doesn't bolt on. Also, I just went out and measured my tranny and you are right, it is 16" from the bellhousing (ie: where it mounts to the block) to the end of the tranny (w/o the tailshaft).

    The reason I'm so interested in whether the 999 and 727 are the same lengths is because when I looked into swapping a 727 into my Jeep quite a few years ago, I remember that one of the conclusions I came to was that the 727 is longer. That's why I'm still discussing this issue with you; I'm trying to remember how I came to that conclusion.


    ...lars
    www.bc4x4.com - Canada's Biggest 4x4 Site

    Home of the Original YJ FAQ!!!

  15. #15
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    Well, since I've never seen a 727 out of a vehicle, I can't really measure it. But, the AA people really, really know their stuff, and that's where I have gotten all my information. I do have a 999 in my Jeep now, so I certainly could measure anything.
    Now that I think about it, the bellhousing is probably integral to the housing on the 999. On the AX-15 that I removed, it is bolt on. It's sitting on my garage floor still.
    Anyone need a AX-15 and *ALL* the parts (brake/clutch pedal assembly, flywheel, pressure plate, 1 piece hydraulic clutch assemble )...



    Fred
    Fred Wilson
    Base - '98 Sahara, 4.0L 6 cyl, Auto (swap from 5 sp)
    Suspension - 4.0" Procomp Springs + 1 1/4" JKS body lift.
    Rear tri-link. Currie J arms in the rear.
    HPD30, front axle, With Currie J-Arms, WJ knuckles, WJ dual piston calibers, Warn Hub Kit, with Warn inners, and CTM u-joints. Cross over, hi-steer.
    Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar.
    Axles & Lockers - Dana30/Dana44 (rear disk conversion); LockRite/Full Detroit; 4.56.
    Drivetrain - AA SYE and CV Driveshaft, Tera 2wd lo.
    Armor - Full
    Wheels - 35x12.50 MT/R's sipped on 15x7 Champion Beadlocks.
    Recovery - Warn XD9000i


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