(YJ) If I put a detroit in the front...

[RYJAY]

I have a line on some gears yet it's only one axle's worth...
I've heard people say different things about locking the front...
I'd like people with experience only...not people who think they know.

If the front is locked will I have any ill effects on road?

thanks
RJ

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1992 YJ
I6, 4.0L HO, 2" Rusty's add-a-leafs, 1.25" lift shackles, 1" MORE body lift and motor mounts, 33x12.50x15 GY MT/R's

® My Photopoint Site (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Albumlist?u=1044256) ® The Jeep YJ Spot (http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thejeepyjspot) ® rjaundrew@home.com ®

[Lightyear]

I'm not a mechanic, but I have had several years experience with this issue; you should not put a full detroit locker in the front diff on a YJ. There are many situations when four wheeling when you'll need to disconnect the front locker just to turn on an obstacle, besides the fact that the manufacturer does not recommend the detroit full locker be installed on the YJ's front axle. Best arrangement for rockcrawling, is an ARB or Ox full locker in the front (manual) and detroit automatic locker in the rear. Limited slip type lockers should not be considered for serious (moderately difficult) off road trails.

If you only have the one detroit locker, the best use for this locker would be to install it in the rear. The highway driving scenario with the detroit in the rear diff: is less dangerous in the rear, really not that noticeable on dry pavement as long as you creep around sharp corners, & the fish-tailing on snow and ice can be countered by shifting into 4WH.

[This message has been edited by Lightyear (edited 08-19-2001).]

[LordAthens]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RYJAY:
I have a line on some gears yet it's only one axle's worth...
I've heard people say different things about locking the front...
I'd like people with experience only...not people who think they know.

If the front is locked will I have any ill effects on road?

thanks
RJ

</font>


When you say you have "a line on some gears, but only one axles worth", do you mean a ring and pinion and a locker, or just a locker?

You do realize by installing a new set of gears up front, different from the rear, you'll grenade your T-Case..

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-Brandon
Proud new pappa of a 99 TJ Sport!
4.0L w\ 5spd - D44\30, 30x9.5x15

Up and comming additions - I got laid off. Looks like i'm gonna be a stocker for a while.

[This message has been edited by LordAthens (edited 08-19-2001).]

[RYJAY]

K, I live in Canada...
westcoast...
no snow here but tons of rain...

do you still suggest a locker? I don't have the money for an ARB or Ox...
my friend welded his rear on his early 80's long box toyota when it gernaded on him...since then he drives his truck much less and says it's hard as hell to steer.

I undrestand about the gears...I'm not retarded! http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/tongue.gif I have a line on some spicer 4.56's and carrier....i am thinking of going detroit or welded other axle so i only need the one set.

RJ

[This message has been edited by RYJAY (edited 08-19-2001).]

[Seth_TJ]

You can regear just the front or just the rear. You can disco your driveshaft and run like that until you can afford gears for the other pumpkinator!


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LordAthens:

When you say you have "a line on some gears, but only one axles worth", do you mean a ring and pinion and a locker, or just a locker?

You do realize by installing a new set of gears up front, different from the rear, you'll grenade your T-Case..

</font>

[bsimon]

You will not notice it in 2wd. In 4 you will notice it. Personally, I do not have experience with it, because I think its a bad idea. Thats based on knowing how lockers work and how driveline systems are supposed to work.

[RYJAY]

seth tj - that would defeat the whole purpose

bsimon - what do you mean?

[projectYJ]

I run a Lockright in the front...YJ D30
No Ill affects onroad, don't even know it's there due to the center axle disconnect.
Off road however, HOLD ON TO YOUR SHORTS. Can you say "TRACTION". No issues with turning in 4LO, Just take it slow. (hehe, that rhymes)

[RYJAY]

thanks for the tip proect YJ
just thought you might like to know...
the tow points are still holding strong...I ran into one problem though...
a yota behind me was stuck comin up a steep hill on a tight trail...so i hooked up to him but i couldn't get enough traction so the guy in front pulled out his big fat nylon tow rope and hooked up to me...
the rope stretches and comes "un-twriled" (for lack of a better term). this twists the lifting eye and the bolt behind the bumper and the steel plate backs off. Luckily it was a short tow and we noticed before the guy in front of me got a shackle in the back of his head.
no more rope on my bumper...tow straps only.

RJ

[projectYJ]

whew...close call

[XJ Hunter]

i swear i dont know about some of you guys giving advice. a front locker does not affect on road 2wd charactersitics AT ALL. a locker is only engaged when torque is applied to it (im talking automatics detroit, ez, lock right). therefore if you are in 2wd whether you have a disconnect d30 or not no torque is applied to your front axle therefore the locker does not affect turning. once you shift into 4wd you will notice on the trail you may be making a 3 point turn here or there, but the trade off is worth it 100%.

as for what manufacturers recomend, many companies dont recomend running a 5x4.5" bolt patter on your axles if you have 33" + tires, yet many still do it. why would detroit make a d30 locker if they dont recomend it for a YJ or TJ..is a detroit for a d30 a CJ only locker?

put the damn thing in the front and wheel it, you will love it. look for a 95.5 YJ with 297 jointed shafts, thats the only thing i see that would be a problem. 260 go on open diffs, and 99% of the time it takes out the ears on one or both yokes.

[OSM TJ]

Don't you just love all the free advice from people who say its a bad idea but have no firsthand experience to back it up? I try not to give opinions on any product that I haven't ran before.

In this case I run an auto locker up front and really like it. All of the people who criticize it need to quit wasting bandwidth with their opnions that come from thin air and second hand opinions which probably came from somebody else that had an unexperienced opinion too. Tell me why you took YOUR autolocker out of the front then I'll stop and listen.

Off my soapbox,



------------------
Scott Kruize
Proud owner of Daddy Longlegs

[wrendog]

Don't waste money on a full Detroit; get a cheaper Lockright or EZ locker. I bought my Lockright for 200 bones. You will plow (understeer) a bit more in 4wd but it's not too bad; I've had to shift to 2wd to make tight turns before. Transparent on the road; in fact the reason I opted for the front locker was because I wanted transparent on-road characteristics. I kept the posi in my 8.8. In the ice and snow I rarely use 4wd as it is but on the rare occasion that I need it I am careful; just realize that and you should be fine.

[Roll Over Pete]

Hey RJ...
I've got Detroits f&r. I run the dana 30 up front and a ford 9" in the rear.
On road, you wont notice the front locker. Keep in mind, with a locker up front, your front driveline will always spin...even when in 2WH. It is important to keep the front d/l u-joints lubed.
Now in 4WL, a Detroit up front can be a PITA. It takes a bit of planning when you need to make a sharp turn. 2WL would be nice but since I'm a cheap bastad, I made my own in-cab mounted front axel vacuum disconect for about $30.00. I just flip a dash mounted vacuum switch to lock or un-lock my front axel. Like the posi-lock,ARB or Ox locker, it allows you to have 3WD instead of 4WD thus making it a little easier to turn.

------------------

Roll Over Pete...
89 YJ...
4 Banger, 4" Nationals,
32"BFG MT's, Ford 9",
Detroits in both ends.
Lotsa dents.
Check me out at:
www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html (http://www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html)

[RYJAY]

Thanks a bunch guys...
sounds like i may go for the lock right up front then.

I can't believe that roll over pete actually replied to another one of my posts...i think that's 2 now...that's pretty good odd's outta the 146 total! You always have constructive and creative things to say (got me interested in the 2WL/3WL disconnect)...thank you.

thanks to the others as well, I've kinda been straying from JU for a bit there cuz I'm tired of all the BS and "hardcore newbies". Now i find myslef starting a lot of it...guess tolerance levels have dropped.
oh well
thanks again

now i just have to justify the actual act of spending the $$$!
...regearing would help me save gas money! http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/images/ubb/biggrin.gif
(I'm already on my way)

RJ

[RYJAY]

okay...one last question though...just been thinkin...
seeing as the lock right isn't a full locker won't i have to regear both axles still?
the point here is i wanna save some money and get some performance boost outta the YJ while possibly getting back as close to my old gas milage as possible.

RJ

[Michael Walsh]

I want you guys to know you just cost me $276. I ordered a EZ locker for the front based on this thread. Just wanted you to know!!



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89 YJ, 31" Geolandars, 3" lift, Warn X8000i, 6 KC's, cactus pinstriping, more....

[Roll Over Pete]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RYJAY:
Thanks a bunch guys...
sounds like i may go for the lock right up front then.

I can't believe that roll over pete actually replied to another one of my posts...i think that's 2 now...that's pretty good odd's outta the 146 total! You always have constructive and creative things to say (got me interested in the 2WL/3WL disconnect)...thank you.


RJ</font>

Yer welcome RJ
The 2WL kit goes in the transfer case. It sells for under $200.00....I think. If and when I go to rebuild my case, I'll install it at that time. I'm pushing 180,000 miles....100,000 since I last rebuilt the case. Guess that Lucas oil treatment works.

As for the 3WL in-cab mounted vacuum disconect thingy I added, It works great! It's quick and easy to use...You don't need to work the thing in or out. Find the vacuum lines that run from the transfer case mounted switch up to the front axel. I spliced into them by the fire wall just above the starter.
I ran the red vacuum supply line into the cab. I then spliced into the green and yellow vacuum lines that go to the shift motor and ran them into the cab. Since you need to release the vacuum from one line before it is applied to the other, I used 2 air switches used in diesel trucks. They are on or off...the kind used for a 5th wheel slide, diff lock, power devider, ect. They run about $10.00 ea. One switch gets a green line and a supply, and the other switch gets the yellow line and a supply. If I remember right, the yellow line locks the front and the green line un-locks the front. Anyways, it looks easier than it sounds. Maybe Santa will send me a digital camera so I could post some pics. Since I'm sill in the stone ages, feel free to email me off line with a fax #. I'd be more than happy to get my crayons out and draw up a vacuum diagram for you.

------------------

Roll Over Pete...
89 YJ...
4 Banger, 4" Nationals,
32"BFG MT's, Ford 9",
Detroits in both ends.
Lotsa dents.
Check me out at:
www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html (http://www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html)

[ZUK]

RYJAY---I'm not quite sure what the "full locker" comment means cause that means there must be a partial locker out there somewhere that I don't know about. As long as you stay out of 4WD you can have whatever axle ratios you want. So if you want to re-gear just the rear for now then you have that option.
.
.
Michael Walsh---this link I made may help you.... http://dreamwater.com/zuk/ezlocker.html

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99 RED TJ....stock
Zuk's Place (http://www.dreamwater.com/zuk)

[RYJAY]

Way to go Michael!!!
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/images/ubb/biggrin.gif

pete - thanks I've saved that info but I won't be putting it to use until i can find some spare time and after i get some other jeep up-keep work done.

Zuk - by full locker I mean a detroit you replace the whole carrier. In a lock right don't you just replace a few parts?

RJ

[ZUK]

RYJAY--yes, just replace the side and spider gears. see my link up above.

[WillYJ]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Roll Over Pete:

As for the 3WL in-cab mounted vacuum disconect thingy I added, It works great! It's quick and easy to use...You don't need to work the thing in or out. Find the vacuum lines that run from the transfer case mounted switch up to the front axel. I spliced into them by the fire wall just above the starter.
I ran the red vacuum supply line into the cab. I then spliced into the green and yellow vacuum lines that go to the shift motor and ran them into the cab. Since you need to release the vacuum from one line before it is applied to the other, I used 2 air switches used in diesel trucks. They are on or off...the kind used for a 5th wheel slide, diff lock, power devider, ect. They run about $10.00 ea. One switch gets a green line and a supply, and the other switch gets the yellow line and a supply. If I remember right, the yellow line locks the front and the green line un-locks the front. Anyways, it looks easier than it sounds. Maybe Santa will send me a digital camera so I could post some pics. Since I'm sill in the stone ages, feel free to email me off line with a fax #. I'd be more than happy to get my crayons out and draw up a vacuum diagram for you.

</font>


I'm sorry...but no matter how many times I read your post....I'm still lost. Definitely need a writeup with picks and part numbers.

Since I have a Lock-Right up-front....this mod would really benefit me. Why do you refer to it as 3WLO, though??


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'92 Sahara. 4.10s, Lock Right front, No-Slip rear, TJ flares, 2" Body lift, 1.25" shackle lift, homemade air tube w/K&N, 33" ProComp MTs on 767s, Magnaflow cat-back, TC Oil Pan Skid, etc.
Willy's Jeep Web (http://members.home.net/mikensarah1)

[TheOgre]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by WillYJ:

Since I have a Lock-Right up-front....this mod would really benefit me. Why do you refer to it as 3WLO, though??


[/B]</font>

Cause, when you manualy engage or disengage the vac axle in a YJ, it only disengages 1 side of the axle. Thus 3WLO http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/images/ubb/biggrin.gif

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In Heaven there is no beer, so we have to drink it all here!!!!

Sean J.
President: Jeeps of North Texas
95YJ, 2.5 Rio Grande, 3.5"BDS lift, JKS discos, 33x 15.50 Swamper TSL SX on Black 15 x 10 Rock Crawlers, Rear Lock Rite in Dana 35... for now
I swear honey, it just followed me home!!! in the trailer!!! to the shop....

Lucky Dog's Home Page (http://luckydog.fws1.com/)

[scotthansford]

I just got installed on my 01 Wranger Detroit EZ locker on the front and the Detroit locker in the rear. Other than some clicking noise now and then you can't tell the front is there. Once your in 4 wheel drive you can definately tell (the front )and your turning ratios might be a bit longer. But Im really happy with the setup and it perfoms well off-road. I had a mechanic install them for me. Scott

[WillYJ]

OMG...I look like an idiot after that question....... http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

[DanH]

Replace the vacuum switch with a manual one to engage/disengage the front diff. They used to call it a rock lock...but I think the name changed. YOu can get them for around $200. You can take it in and out of 4wd whenever you want. This also gives you 2 wheel drive LOW range...kinda cool!!

[WillYJ]

Where do the supply lines for the switches come from???

[Michael Walsh]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ZUK:
RYJAY---I'm not quite sure what the "full locker" comment means cause that means there must be a partial locker out there somewhere that I don't know about. As long as you stay out of 4WD you can have whatever axle ratios you want. So if you want to re-gear just the rear for now then you have that option.
.
.
Michael Walsh---this link I made may help you.... http://dreamwater.com/zuk/ezlocker.html

</font>

Bad link - I get "can't find"... THanks anyway.



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89 YJ, 31" Geolandars, 3" lift, Warn X8000i, 6 KC's, cactus pinstriping, more....

[Rock Ready YJ]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RYJAY:
okay...one last question though...just been thinkin...
seeing as the lock right isn't a full locker won't i have to regear both axles still?
the point here is i wanna save some money and get some performance boost outta the YJ while possibly getting back as close to my old gas milage as possible.

are you saying that you think you can only put new gears in one axle if you get a detroit? if so your very wrong. Any time you regear you have to regear both axles locker or open, if you have unmatching gears your t-case will go boom. if thats not what you were saying then, ok


RJ</font>



------------------
89 YJ
90 XJ 7 inch lift, locked, geared, fun

[Roll Over Pete]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by WillYJ:
Where do the supply lines for the switches come from???</font>

Willy....
On my 89 YJ, there is a multiple vacuum connector right behind the cylinder head. There should be 4 lines comeing from it. The top 3 lines go to the EGR canister solenoid and charcoal canister. All emissions related. The bottom vacuum line will come out right in front of the charcoal canister. It will have a check valve tied into a small red vacuum line. This red supply line goes back to the vacuum switch located on your transfer case. When you shift from 2WH to 4WH or 4WL, the transfer case switch releases vacuum from the green line and applies vacuum to the yellow line...which locks the front axel. All I did was bypass the transfer case switch. I cut the red line after the check valve and ran it into the cab thru the firewall. This is the vacuum supply line which goes to the cab mounted switches. Then you cut and splice the green and yellow lines that go to the shift motor and run them into the cab. They can be found between the battery tray and charcoal canister. To splice everything together, I used the same size plastic tubing and a piece of 7/64" rubber vacuum hose part # 485 at Napa Auto. I cut the hose about 1" length and pushed the plastic tubing into it. This makes for a nice fit and is the easiest way to repair the plastic tubing found in the vacuum harness. I always carry extra hose....just incase.
Now....have I lost ya or are you still with me? http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------

Roll Over Pete...
89 YJ...
4 Banger, 4" Nationals,
32"BFG MT's, Ford 9",
Detroits in both ends.
Lotsa dents.
Check me out at:
www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html (http://www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html)

[Roll Over Pete]

btt for kid vicious

------------------

Roll Over Pete...
89 YJ...
4 Banger, 4" Nationals,
32"BFG MT's, Ford 9",
Detroits in both ends.
Lotsa dents.
Check me out at:
www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html (http://www.hardcorejeep.com/shots/pete.html)