Dana 30 LSD/Locker

[kwikshift]

I am wondering what are my options for front LSD/Locker. I think if I could I would like to run some kind of elocker but don't know what's out there. I think I am going to go with a 30/8.8 setup with a spring over ultimately but doing my homework now.

I know I can upgrade to alloy shafts for the 30 and it will be a decent setup for a mixed bag of nuts YJ. The Jeep will be not a daily driver but needs to be road capable for snow and occasional driving and then for trailriding.

I don't want to go with a detroit front or rear cause the YJ sees highway driving and snow and sometimes both simultaneously. So I think I need to go with a selectable locker up front, but I would like to stay away from ARB for cost not only of the locker but also the support hardware. I am probably going to try and find a 4.10 LSD 8.8 so that will get the job done for a while.

So anyone have suggestions, or links? It would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[butch6924]

Check out some of the vendors in the vendors section. Their sites will usually list different options for lockers.

FYI, a non-selectable isn't much of an issue in the front of a YJ because of the disconnect. It allows the wheels to turn independantly whether the locker is locked or not. A proven, inexpensive method for locking the front of a disconnect axle is the lunchbox type lockers. Those provide plenty of traction without any real 2wd side effects due to the disconnect.

[kwikshift]

Check out some of the vendors in the vendors section. Their sites will usually list different options for lockers.

FYI, a non-selectable isn't much of an issue in the front of a YJ because of the disconnect. It allows the wheels to turn independantly whether the locker is locked or not. A proven, inexpensive method for locking the front of a disconnect axle is the lunchbox type lockers. Those provide plenty of traction without any real 2wd side effects due to the disconnect.

Yeah, that I know, but I have some concerns about when I want it in 4wd but not locked, like in snow or something. Everyone I have spoken to with a front locker has said you can have less steering control and it tends to want to push straight especially at higher speeds. So if I am using it to get through snow in 4wd and have to turn it will just want to go straight. I specifically would like the ability to run in 4wd while unlocked.

[Farmun]

You may look into using a Posi-Lok with the front automatic locker. This will allow you to technically have a 2, 3, or 4 wheel drive, if you have a LSD in the rear.

If you install the auto locker up front, and your TC is in 4lo or 4hi, and your front axle is connected, you will have both front wheels pulling. If you then disconnect the passenger side with the Posi-Lok, then only the front drivers wheel is pulling, and the passenger side is free-wheeling. This should keep the Heep from steering too crazy on slick stuff (most of the time anyway).

[kwikshift]

You may look into using a Posi-Lok with the front automatic locker. This will allow you to technically have a 2, 3, or 4 wheel drive, if you have a LSD in the rear.

If you install the auto locker up front, and your TC is in 4lo or 4hi, and your front axle is connected, you will have both front wheels pulling. If you then disconnect the passenger side with the Posi-Lok, then only the front drivers wheel is pulling, and the passenger side is free-wheeling.

Hmm interesting idea. The Auburn ECTED is about 550-600 and a aussie and posi-lok would add up to around...425-450? It's definitely a interesting though. Gives me something to think about, hmmmm.

[matts88yj]

I wouldn't do the ECTED locker. kwrangln did a very nice post on here about that locker and it really isnt all that its cracked up to be. I will see if I can dig it up for you. Im going to put a detroit in my 8.8 in the rear and a lunchbox up front. I drove a rig with a detroit in the rear and honestly, it isnt that bad. You just have to get used to it. Basically it is locked when you are on the gas and is unlocked when you are not. Everyone has the misconception that it is locked 100% of the time. If you go around a corner on the gas you will get the tire chirp or "racheting" (spelling?) sound like they say. Mine is my DD rig and I see no problems with the detroit in the rear. Im using the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid) when it comes to lockers. Also having the posi-loc up front that replaces the disconnect will greatly help you when you have it in 4wd with your turning. Just thought I would toss this out there to help ya out!

Matt

[matts88yj]

Here is the post I was talking about for the ECTED locker.
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739058&highlight=Auburn+ECTED+locker

Thanks to Ken for the info!!!

Matt

[kwikshift]

Hey, thanks for the link. Well it sounds somewhat interesting. But I don't know how much wear mine will see, but I can definitely see his point about overcoming the "locked" portion of it. Although at some point you have to say if you are putting more than 1500ftlbs of torque on a dana 30 axle, the axle will probably go just as fast as the clutch plates would slip.

I am still thinking about it, I don't have to make a decision right away, but my rig is going to be as much on the street as it is on the trail, and it does need to be able to drive highway miles so it may not be the worst idea. Still alot to think about.

Good info though.

[92jeepjeep]

Here is the post I was talking about for the ECTED locker.
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739058&highlight=Auburn+ECTED+locker

Thanks to Ken for the info!!!

Matt

Thanks Matt for the link. Have you had any experience with the Aussie locker? Well guess I could do a search. Mike

[zman]

I wouldn't waste your time with a LSD in the front. If you get it with the 8.8 in the rear, go for it. As far as a locker up front a Lockrite is cheap, easy to install and can be removed if you hate it, others can't. As far as using it in the snow I have my own opinion. Most of your driving in snow can be done in 2WD, if you get stuck or near stuck you will want a locker up front to get you out, as an open diff or LSD won't do much good. Now if were talking black ice conditions then you may have some issues. Take in consideration how much driving in the snow you really do.

zman

zman

[matts88yj]

My buddy is running one in the front of his rig and he says there was never a time where he wished he didn't have it. I will be installing one in the front of my rig when the funds allow. The Aussie is a good lunchbox locker. Can't go wrong with them IMO. HTH!

Matt

Thanks Matt for the link. Have you had any experience with the Aussie locker? Well guess I could do a search. Mike

[butch6924]

As far as the locker pushing you at "higher speeds", if you're going fast enough for it to matter, you shouldn't be in 4wd, that's just my opinion though.

As for the posi-lok cable, that's a nice product, but I built one out of parts from the bike shop for about $30 and it works just fine for me.

As for the ECTED, Kwrangln, has been an outspoken "anti-supporter" of that product. Funny, because he's never owned one and never driven a vehicle that has one in it. I can tell you FROM FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE, that they do work and work well. At least the one in my 8.8, my buddy's 8.8 and my buddy's D30 work perfectly. 3 for 3, that's not bad.

I've got a lunchbox in the front and a home made posi-lok on the disconnect. My vacuum actuator went out and I had to find a solution, replacement parts cost more than the cable option. It works, I'm happy. In the rear I've got an ECTED. It works great and I'm very happy with it.

In all, my jeep has more than enough traction and all the selectability of a pair of ARB's for less than one, not to mention the cost of the compressor.

[wildtyphoon]

Just another thought, i have a true track up front (the gear driven limited slip)
its not quite a locker, its really kind of trick how it works. i dont notice it on the street at all (i got rid of the disconnect stuff and just run tj shafts) but if your ever stuck with one wheel in the air it will allow one to freewheel unless you give it a little brake for resistance, then it will lock up like a locker. i really think it works well.

[notmYJ]

Hey, thanks for the link. Well it sounds somewhat interesting. But I don't know how much wear mine will see, but I can definitely see his point about overcoming the "locked" portion of it. Although at some point you have to say if you are putting more than 1500ftlbs of torque on a dana 30 axle, the axle will probably go just as fast as the clutch plates would slip.

I am still thinking about it, I don't have to make a decision right away, but my rig is going to be as much on the street as it is on the trail, and it does need to be able to drive highway miles so it may not be the worst idea. Still alot to think about.

Good info though.

There is alot of torque going to an axle. For instance....

Say a 4cyl is only putting out 100lb/ft of torque, through an AX5, NP231 in 4lo, with factory 4.10's.

The math works out to...4,366 lb/ft at the differental. Yes, thats right. Not a typo.

A six cyl with a 4-1 kit on 4.10's.... 190 lb/ft comes to.. 10,906lb/ft at the diff.

so yeah, 1500lb/ft really isnt anything.... Hell I could get that with a 5hp briggs &straton lawnmower engine and a few stacked T-cases. lol.

[budman]

For those of you using a disconnect (either a Posi Lock or homemade). Do you feel that its worth the effort for those axles since they have the 260 joint? I am running 35" tires and have concerns with the stock axles. Like most I am on a budget. I was considering buying some used TJ axles. Is this a upgrade or should I just put some new 260 joints in my shafts and carry spares?

[wildtyphoon]

if you can find shafts from a 95, i believe those have the disconnect with the bigger u joints.

[notmYJ]

If you can afford it I would reccomend new alloy shafts. Especially if you running 35's. I destroyed my front shafts with 33's. I put in a set of Yukon 1pc shafts and have no more worries about loosing a front axle or u-joint.

[zman]

For those of you using a disconnect (either a Posi Lock or homemade). Do you feel that its worth the effort for those axles since they have the 260 joint? I am running 35" tires and have concerns with the stock axles. Like most I am on a budget. I was considering buying some used TJ axles. Is this a upgrade or should I just put some new 260 joints in my shafts and carry spares?

Keep what you have until you break it. No need to replace u-joints unless they are bad. One thing I would do is weld the u-joint caps onto the axel yoke. Seems the u-joints tend to loose the innner clip after awhile, cap pops out then boom.

zman

[Rock WoRM]

For those of you using a disconnect (either a Posi Lock or homemade). Do you feel that its worth the effort for those axles since they have the 260 joint? I am running 35" tires and have concerns with the stock axles. Like most I am on a budget. I was considering buying some used TJ axles. Is this a upgrade or should I just put some new 260 joints in my shafts and carry spares?

Another option, if your gona keep the disconnect, and would like a set of spare axles, not just joints, is to buy a set of '95 shafts. Stock '95 shafts have the 297 ujoint, but if U buy new replacement '95 shafts, then U will get the 760 u-joint. As of a couple or so years ago, they were upgraded to the larger joints. Thats what I did and I use the old shafts as spares. At the time I thought it was cost effective, but that was then, so U may need to check prices and compare that to the TJ shafts, or even chromo shafts and see what will work for ya.



WoRM :bsod:

[matts88yj]

I just wanted to say that Im not for or against any of the lockers mentioned above. I was just passing along some info that I came accrost earliear in my searching and thought I would post up what I found out as well. Me personally Im going with an Aussie locker up front. Im sticking with the KISS method when it comes to drivetrain components, especially lockers. Thats also why Im going with a Detroit in the rear when I swap axles. I know Im really young when it comes to you guys (21) but Im also old school like that if you know what I mean. There is a lot of good info in this thread and I always learn a lot from everyone! Keep this one going!

Matt

[notmYJ]

If you really want to KISS, get ChroMo shafts and a spool. Can't much more simple than that. ;)

[kwikshift]

FIRST - To clear things up
What I have been told about the front auto locker push at higher speeds in poor traction environments(mud, snow, etc), higher refers to higher than crawling, so basically any driving speed. Say 10+ mph? And there is no reason to say something like 10+ mph is to fast for 4wd. And in the North East with LOTS of hills/Mountains EVERYWHERE. Just getting around town can require 4wd regularly and I don't want to push into a curb or another car at in town speeds during a snow storm. I am not talking about doing 70 in 4wd.....So, stop and think about it for a second and realize it is a real and valid concern.

I am basing this not on heresay but on first hand knowledge of a wheelin buddy. We were out in the mud a week ago or so and he kept having to put it into 2wd to get through turns. He was running a TJ with a locker not sure if it was aussie, or lockright or what. He said that any limited traction environment at all there is not enough traction to allow the 'slip' designed into an autolocker so it just forced the wheels to turn the same speed. When wheels in front turn the same speed you push through the turn and the vehicle goes straight. So to make any of the turns in the mud he had to go in 2wd, and the ones he didn't he pushed right of the trail into the trees even at moderate speeds say less than 15 mph, and he needed to carry speed of some sort cause it was a turn into a hill climb and if you crawled into the hill you were stuck cause it was raining that day. This is why I started asking at all.

Now, all that being said, the YJ has in some way an odd advantage with the disconnect as someone mentioned cause it allows you to get power to 1 or both of the front wheels as you choose. Giving you the ability to run with power to the front driver side only which will help alot more than 2wd but not give you the bad steering characteristics.

Well, I found a used Posi-lock for cheap so I am picking that up. So at this point it seems to make more sense from a cost only point to get something like a lunchbox and if I need help up front but don't want the push I can open the front passenger wheel like someone had suggested. Then if I am on the trail and I am crawling and I want/need the locker, it is there to use.

So I think I will be looking to do a LSD in the back and a lunchbox up front with a posilock. This should give me great snow and mud traction and variable ability up front for around town and on road driving, then I will also have plenty of traction off-road.

So I am not set in stone, but I think this is going to be the way I lean on this for now. But great info here. For once I can see a possible advantage to the posilock/disconnect on the YJ for a mixed use rig.

[notmYJ]

A stronger option that will net the results is to go with a selectable locker in teh front with 1 piece shafts. Sure it i more expensive, but it is way stronger, and you can still lock and unlock the front when you want/need.

I didn't put a lunchbox locker in when I did my front shafts due to the reasons you cited. In snow on the road, it could lead to alot of sidways action on a snow covered street. Sure I could have done the posiLock option as have described, bu tthen I still have weaker axle shafts.

The best way to do it, IMHO, is alloy 1pc shafts (no disconect), and a selectable locker. Yeah it cost alot more, but it is alot stronger, and I can still turn. I figure if I am gonna do it, might as well do it as strong as possible. The money I could have put into the PosiLock will just be applied to a selectable locker instead.

Just some food for thought.

p.s. I am still saving to get the locker in the front....

[kwikshift]

A stronger option that will net the results is to go with a selectable locker in teh front with 1 piece shafts. Sure it i more expensive, but it is way stronger, and you can still lock and unlock the front when you want/need.

I didn't put a lunchbox locker in when I did my front shafts due to the reasons you cited. In snow on the road, it could lead to alot of sidways action on a snow covered street. Sure I could have done the posiLock option as have described, bu tthen I still have weaker axle shafts.

The best way to do it, IMHO, is alloy 1pc shafts (no disconect), and a selectable locker. Yeah it cost alot more, but it is alot stronger, and I can still turn. I figure if I am gonna do it, might as well do it as strong as possible. The money I could have put into the PosiLock will just be applied to a selectable locker instead.

Just some food for thought.

p.s. I am still saving to get the locker in the front....

Yeah, well I would like to do this too, but honestly the trade off of say a $250 total investment which is what I am looking at considering the deal I got on the posilock as compared to the cost of an ARB, compressor, new shafts all around say $1500? Really there is no comparison. If money were not a consideration then I wouldn't even be keeping the 30 I would upgrade the axle if I was gonna throw that much at it. Sadly though the amount of other work that I can do to the jeep for $1000 plus is also a consideration, and it's better spent elsewhere.

[notmYJ]

True the ARB is the most popular way, but as you statedm the most expensive way aswell. You can go with an electric locker for under 700 complete. Still a pretty penny, no doubt. But there other less expensive selectable options as well, that would offer more strength.

Not trying to start a web war, just offering up some other ideas based on your wants and needs. Also, the new shafts don't need to go in when you do the locker. you can spend the money on a selectable locker, and wheel it with the old axles, then upgrade them at a later time i.e. when they break. I wouldn't reccomend sacrificing strength for a dollar amount. I would reccomend to save more and do it once, do it right.

The manufactures reccomend a hub conversion wih auto lockers int eh front for a reason. If you do a selctable you can avoid any and all problems with a auto locker both as you described, and quircks while in 2wd.

The only reason I am replying to this thread is because I was goin through the same thing as you are 2 weeks ago when I almost got a lunchbox locker for $100 new in box for my D30.

[kwikshift]

True the ARB is the most popular way, but as you statedm the most expensive way aswell. You can go with an electric locker for under 700 complete. Still a pretty penny, no doubt. But there other less expensive selectable options as well, that would offer more strength.

Not trying to start a web war, just offering up some other ideas based on your wants and needs. Also, the new shafts don't need to go in when you do the locker. you can spend the money on a selectable locker, and wheel it with the old axles, then upgrade them at a later time i.e. when they break. I wouldn't reccomend sacrificing strength for a dollar amount. I would reccomend to save more and do it once, do it right.

The manufactures reccomend a hub conversion wih auto lockers int eh front for a reason. If you do a selctable you can avoid any and all problems with a auto locker both as you described, and quircks while in 2wd.

The only reason I am replying to this thread is because I was goin through the same thing as you are 2 weeks ago when I almost got a lunchbox locker for $100 new in box for my D30.

Not a web war at all. Honest discussion for the sake of actually seeing the ups and downs of both sides. :thumbsup:

We were actually talking elocker before, but someone brought up the good point is they are technically just a limited slip that just has selectable force against the friction pads. So when you "lock" it you are just telling it to put the pads under full friction electronically. I read up on the manufacturers site and that is the actual case. Also you will either need to have your diff setup by a pro or if you know how to set backlash and stuff do it yourself, but you may have to buy tools, either way added expense.

Also the problem with doing the locker then axles later is that many of the upgraded axles come with different splines than the stock ones same thing with lockers, so it's either all at once or not at all depending on what locker and axles you choose. Certainly not the case for all of them, but something that must be kept in mind when doing locker and axle selection.

I agree with you that it's better to "do it right the first time" but to me that would mean ditching the 30 all together. By keeping it you are setting yourself up for a budget solution from the start, so I am specifically approaching the discussion that way. If I were to upgrade with something in the $700+ dollar range I would probably try and find a 44 or 60 and then put money into that. Although a good 60 is harder to find, you can get 44s for pretty cheap. If I ever go full offroad or expand my budget I would probably get a complete upgrade up front, but not sure.

I appreciate your input though, all good info for future readers and for me now!

Side note, where were you going to get this locker? And is it still available at that price? PM me if so, thanks.