Dual Battery ???

[Weekender1969]

Ok I have done some research on the different batteries and setups and here is what I am trying to decide on.

I am installing a winch and don't know whether to get the Odyssey PC1500DT,
The Yellow Top Optima, or just keep my current starter and get a deep cycle for the winch.

Price wise the second battery will be cheaper and I will have the peace of mind knowing I won't kill my starter.

I know there is a lot of debate on which battery is better (I did a search first). What I am wondering for those of you running the Optima or the Odyssey, have you ever killed one of these and how often does it happen?

Not really wanting to drag up a debate, just trying to figure out if the extra work of a second battery is worth it? Or if I would be better off taking the easy route and just get one of the monsters and bolt in?

Any info appreciated.
Dale

[Robert J. Yates]

If you want to run dual batteries...you can certianly add one in without much trouble. You would need to make sure your batteries are matched and both in the same condition or else the weaker one will be preyed on by the stronger one. To minimize and eliminate this occurance, isolator kits or battery manger kits come into play. These add expense as would the addition of a second tray.

As far as batteries go, I have had horrible luck with Optima Yellowtops and will now only run Odysseys. The Optimas would give up the ghost and stop holding charges ar the 2 year mark. I have had no such experience with the Odyssey's. I have killed one but that was after I had to winch my Jeep out of an obstacle for about 30-40 yards without any motor assistance because I smoked my steering box. The Odyssey was close to 4 years old at the time.

I now run a dual Odyssey PC1200 kit that includes a 250amp manager solenoid and tray manufactured by Kodiack.

http://www.kodiakinc.com/dual_battery.html

[canuckjeeper]

I'd make sure to use a battery isolator so that different batteries do not discharge each other. Just make sure it matches/betters the capacity of your alternator.

JP

[Weekender1969]

I'd make sure to use a battery isolator so that different batteries do not discharge each other. Just make sure it matches/betters the capacity of your alternator.

JP

I have the 165 amp alternator so I'm pretty sure I am covered on that. As far the batteries I was planning on useing a relay to isolate the winch battery during start up and such. I am fairly familiar with multiple battery charging, actually use some batteries made by Hawker who makes the Odyssey. If they weren't so huge and slightly off on charge voltage, I would use one of them for the winch.

I think I can find an isolator plan on line and build it much cheaper than you could buy a ready made one.

The more I think about it though, with a 165 amp alt and my dislike for hobby stuff that is close to work, I am seriously considering the Odyssey PC1500DT, bolt it in and be done.

Thanks for the info.
Dale

[Kenny Kustom]

i run dual exide orbitals. No isolation. I havent had too much luck with optima.

[Weekender1969]

i run dual exide orbitals. No isolation. I havent had too much luck with optima.

I have not seen to much on the exide orbitals but they appear to be similar theory as the optima's. I am very familiar with Hawker products and will probably just go with the Odyssey.

Just for all's info, if you ever run across a battery made by Power Battery Corp, run away from it.
At work I have approximately 80 of the Hawker brand batteries(maker of odyssey) and a few hundred of the Power Battery brand. We are replaceing the power batteries with the Hawkers as they fail, which is very frequent. These are sealed ventless industrial batteries but I have had such bad luck with Power Battery that I wouldn't buy anything they made. To be honest their customer service is pretty darn good, to bad their product sucks.

Hawker has been good all the way around for us, great service and great product.

GL
Dale

[James (Cubby) Culbertson]

I've killed both Optima's and one Odyssey. Interestingly, the Optima's tested as dead but were able to be brought back to life through a high amperage, cyclical charge (found the information somewhere on the web on how to do this). After that, I haven't had any issues. The Odyssey sat for about a year and I'd start the Jeep maybe every 6-8 weeks. It died but in fairness, I didn't treat it very well. You can't (or shouldn't, according to Odyssey) use a standard battery charger with the Odyssey's. There are chargers specifically made for them. I went with a Hellroaring Technologies Isolator/Combiner and it's worked flawlessly.
Cheers,
cc

[Weekender1969]

I've killed both Optima's and one Odyssey. Interestingly, the Optima's tested as dead but were able to be brought back to life through a high amperage, cyclical charge (found the information somewhere on the web on how to do this). After that, I haven't had any issues. The Odyssey sat for about a year and I'd start the Jeep maybe every 6-8 weeks. It died but in fairness, I didn't treat it very well. You can't (or shouldn't, according to Odyssey) use a standard battery charger with the Odyssey's. There are chargers specifically made for them. I went with a Hellroaring Technologies Isolator/Combiner and it's worked flawlessly.
Cheers,
cc
Is this a seperate charger while in the jeep, or while out?
Or is it just if you are running dual setup?
Thanks
Dale

[canuckjeeper]

My point was that the isolator has to be at least 165A approved or better, since if you're running the winch with the engine on & rev'ed up, you could be pulling 165A through the isolator.

JP

I think I can find an isolator plan on line and build it much cheaper than you could buy a ready made one.

The more I think about it though, with a 165 amp alt and my dislike for hobby stuff that is close to work, I am seriously considering the Odyssey PC1500DT, bolt it in and be done.

Thanks for the info.
Dale

[Road Head]

In my boat, I run dual Everstart Maxx batteries from Wal-Mart. This battery seems to be highly recommended by the boating community. And I realize boating and jeeping are different, however being stuck on the lake with no battery and not having enough juice to run your winch are essentially the same problem...you are STUCK. I actually have a switch where I choose either battery one or battery two, but I doubt that is your intention. As stated, if you have one weak and one strong battery, unless you isolate them, the weak one will suck charge off the strong battery.

[Weekender1969]

My point was that the isolator has to be at least 165A approved or better, since if you're running the winch with the engine on & rev'ed up, you could be pulling 165A through the isolator.

JP

Yeah I think must've been lit when I replied, not sure what my point was to ya.:wb:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had the purpose of an isolator explained, i.e. why you can't just use a relay to disconnect the winch battery from the system except when the engine is running?
I have seen boats ran this way for decades, starter battery and trolling battery are both charged while the engine is running and the trolling battery is seperated while trolling so you don't kill your starter battery.
Or does anyone have a link to good write up?
Just trying to figure this out as I don't quite underrstand why you would need an isolated draw for the winch battery when the engine is running.
Theoretically speaking, I would just use a relay with 200 amp curent draw capability and connect it between the winch battery and the alt, have it energizd by a hot that is only available while the engine is running, and therefore if I ever had to run the winch with no engine I would not kill the starter.
I've searched around and the isolators keep the two batteries seperate at all times and prevents you from killing the starter, but is their really a need to keep them seperate while the engine is running?

Thanks

Dale

[Weekender1969]

In my boat, I run dual Everstart Maxx batteries from Wal-Mart. This battery seems to be highly recommended by the boating community. And I realize boating and jeeping are different, however being stuck on the lake with no battery and not having enough juice to run your winch are essentially the same problem...you are STUCK. I actually have a switch where I choose either battery one or battery two, but I doubt that is your intention. As stated, if you have one weak and one strong battery, unless you isolate them, the weak one will suck charge off the strong battery.

But is it required while the engine is running?

[RatherBeJeeping]

a simple relay will work just fine, exactly like you said. Make it keyed hot and let both charger while the engine is running. isolated when the key is off.

[James (Cubby) Culbertson]

Is this a seperate charger while in the jeep, or while out?
Or is it just if you are running dual setup?
Thanks
Dale

Hiya Dale,
This is to charge the battery (Odyssey) if it needs it. In my case, I was letting the jeep sit without running very often so wanted to hook up a charger to it to keep it fresh. If it's going in a daily driver type vehicle, you shouldn't worry about it. Here's a link to the one Odyssey sells:

http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?c=Odyssey_Ultimizer

Cheers,
cc

[Weekender1969]

a simple relay will work just fine, exactly like you said. Make it keyed hot and let both charger while the engine is running. isolated when the key is off.

Thanks
I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I would want to have it isolated while the heep was running:ugh2: .

I guess in extreme cases I may drain the batteries even while running, but not likely to happen to a weekend junkie like myself.

Dale

[canuckjeeper]

Where in the world are you gonna find a 12V DC 165A relay?

Not to mention, how are you gonna prevent backfeeding through the relay when running the winch with the engine on/key on acc/etc ?

JP

[Weekender1969]

Hiya Dale,
This is to charge the battery (Odyssey) if it needs it. In my case, I was letting the jeep sit without running very often so wanted to hook up a charger to it to keep it fresh. If it's going in a daily driver type vehicle, you shouldn't worry about it. Here's a link to the one Odyssey sells:

http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?c=Odyssey_Ultimizer

Cheers,
cc
Mine's not a daily driver but it is usually driven most weekends, if I have any trouble I will keep this in mind.
Thanks
Dale

[Weekender1969]

Where in the world are you gonna find a 12V DC 165A relay?

JP

Well the easiest would be a starter solenoid for a tractor or some other heavy equipment, but they do have them in other apps. I actually see a 1000 amp one just about everday at work that is in a power plant, this is the disconnect for the dc battery bank that I spoke of above. And we happen to have a broken system just sitting there and the relay aint the problem.
So I figure just salvage it and then I know I am covered...
:jump:
Dale

[Weekender1969]

Not to mention, how are you gonna prevent backfeeding through the relay when running the winch with the engine on/key on acc/etc ?

JP

I don't really see a need to but if I have to I can just drop the relay supply and it is isolated.
Dale

[Robert J. Yates]

Hiya Dale,
This is to charge the battery (Odyssey) if it needs it. In my case, I was letting the jeep sit without running very often so wanted to hook up a charger to it to keep it fresh. If it's going in a daily driver type vehicle, you shouldn't worry about it. Here's a link to the one Odyssey sells:

http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?c=Odyssey_Ultimizer

Cheers,
cc

Interesting....that Ultimizer only covers the Odyssey's up to the PC925's which while found in some dual battery set-ups (Wrangler NW) and once in a while as a single in Jeeps, is typically considered smallish and not a viable choice. I have run a single PC1200 and now have dual 1200's so I wonder if this Ultimizer will actually work on the larger batteries?

[canuckjeeper]

All I was mentioning is that you can't use a 30A relay, you'll need something much beefier, like a ford selonoid (mentioned above).

JP

[Weekender1969]

All I was mentioning is that you can't use a 30A relay,
JP

Awe com'on, I like to smoke stuff:jj:

Dale

[RatherBeJeeping]

NAPA has a 200 amp continous duty relay in the catalog for $34... sorry, didn't bother to get the part number.

[Weekender1969]

NAPA has a 200 amp continous duty relay in the catalog for $34... sorry, didn't bother to get the part number.

I knew they were available and have seen them numerous places, like at work everday. But 34 bucks is fairly cheap, I think that is prolly even cheaper than a tractor solenoid.
Thanks for the info.:clapping:
Dale

[James (Cubby) Culbertson]

Interesting....that Ultimizer only covers the Odyssey's up to the PC925's which while found in some dual battery set-ups (Wrangler NW) and once in a while as a single in Jeeps, is typically considered smallish and not a viable choice. I have run a single PC1200 and now have dual 1200's so I wonder if this Ultimizer will actually work on the larger batteries?

Actually any of them will charge up any odyssey.....it will just take longer the smaller the unit you have. I have the 12A version and it can take up to half a day to fully charge my PC1200.
Cheers,
cc