I ordered a PSC Trail cage today... [Archive]

jeepster93

02-27-2006, 07:38 PM

Picking it up tomorrow.

Holy cow....
Do you know how much I was quoted to install it at my local shop?

6 1/2 hours, at shop rate.
out the door=$554.45

So is this too high?
I was expecting about 3 to 4 bills ...
Poison don't install them themselves(I live 5 miles from there)
I know how to weld, but am certainly not certified, my welder is to small for that stuff, but I can rent a large enough one.
Input???

Tough91YJ

02-27-2006, 07:44 PM

who cares if your are not certified to weld, if u can weld good (at least better than my welds) go for it. rent a bigger welder and save the $550. thats insane to pay that if u can weld.
good luck with your new cage, i love the looks of those!

wallysheata

02-27-2006, 07:45 PM

weld it your self, if you have to weld it in the jeep, and you're not sure about your welding skills, i would suggest finding some similar pipe to practice on with the welder you plan to use, then simply spot weld the entire thing, that's how PSC does it anyways, and if done properly it'll be plenty strong. Basically strike an arc for 2-3 seconds dragging it slowly from one side to the other, then stop, wait a few seconds, and do another one right behind that. Your other option is to drive to junction where labor rates are $50 an hour :agree:

Rock WoRM

02-27-2006, 08:11 PM

What machine do U have? Like Wally said, even a small one should be able to tack it... thats what I'd do. If ya don't mind... how much for that cage? Just wondering if a full on custom would have been cheaper? :puzzled:

Your other option is to drive to junction where labor rates are $50 an hour :agree:
I thought labor rates in GJ were one 12 pack per/hr.? :hoos: :chugger: :gulpbeer: :friday: :tipglug:

Personally... I'd do it for a 12 pack and a plane ticket to Aspen. :winky: (and back)

WoRM :bsod:

ylojelo

02-27-2006, 09:34 PM

:pirate: ot, but their site says for off road use. Does anyone see a problem with using it in a mostly street jeep? In a higher speed accident, what would happen? It couldnt be any worst than the factory cage, right?

1 ton yj

02-27-2006, 09:51 PM

they say that so if you get in a wreck they are not responsible for what happens. those cages are far from great, but better than the factory seatbelt bar

kxjeep

02-27-2006, 10:07 PM

I rolled a CJ5 years ago end-over-end three times at 60 mph. I had the stock low back seats, lap belts, and a "me" built cage using heavy gauge muffler pipe without any triangles (I have learned a few things in the past 25 years). Never even broke the windshield. In fact, flipped it back on the tires and drove it home. In a roll, jeeps can take more than you think, so even a simple cage should be just dandy.

Now in my old age, I am installing a set of Baja SS seats this weekend, upgrading the belts, and enhancing the cage in the near future. Still built by "me" fabrication.

Weld it yourself. Take the advice and practice on similar size pipe. Gussett the corners if your are nervous using smaller pipe or flat plate. That should do the trick.

Rick

jeepster93

02-28-2006, 11:04 AM

I will weld it myself... Thanks guys for letting me know I can.
I paid $350 for the cage, including grabhandles and 4 of thier custom spider gussets(not sure where I will put these but they looked cool), no shipping as I am picking it up, but sales taxes. Got it from PSC themselves as discounts were small and shipping is killer.
My welder is a small Hobart 120 volt wire welder, the chart does list 1/8 inch steel as weldable, so I might not have to rent one.

I almost rolled over this year on Carnage's firemans hill, one in our group did roll, I am getting good at wheeling and am taking bigger challanges(chances), but have zero want to kill myself... So I need a cage.
There are a few things in the jeep I hope to NEVER use or need, but I take em anyhow...the cage is one of these needed but not wanted things.

ylojelo

02-28-2006, 11:51 AM

post pics when you get it in :nerd:

Jeeper_Dan12345

02-28-2006, 02:41 PM

Your looking at this all wrong, figure the money you were going to spend on shop labor to buy a bigger welder...

butch6924

02-28-2006, 03:09 PM

Your looking at this all wrong, figure the money you were going to spend on shop labor to buy a bigger welder...

I like the way you think. :thup2:

Janster, take plenty of pics. I want to see how one of those goes together.

jeepster93

02-28-2006, 04:49 PM

Picked it up just now....
Not much to it. 6 cut pipes and 2 triangleular dash to floor braces. couple nuts and bolts, plus the handles and gussets.
The dash braces do not look like the ones on the website, as they do not have the laser etched spider in them, mabe only a tj thing...no biggie...
I was wondering how I was going to keep from burning and splatting my seats and dash... The instructions say to install it and tack it up, then remove it to weld...DUH...only way to do when I think about it.
The "final install" step in the instructions say to drive your rig to a friends house that wheels and flaunt your new cage like you just won the lotto.

Also, there was some cool rigs sitting in front of and inside Poison Spider, hot paint jobs and some serious off road jeeps. WOW. Some people have way too much money...

orangecrush302

02-28-2006, 05:20 PM

i just put mine in about a week ago...tooks me about and hour..by myself...its really easy

Rock WoRM

02-28-2006, 08:29 PM

The dash braces do not look like the ones on the website, as they do not have the laser etched spider in them, mabe only a tj thing...no biggie......
that could be a good thing... if it was supposed to be @ the transition between the tube and the flat part of the post, that is where Zman's OrFab failed... I would be tempted to ADD some more gussets or steel in that spot.

I was wondering how I was going to keep from burning and splatting my seats and dash...
.
If your Hobart is gas adaptable, that will help a lot. If not, then get some gun tip lube (cheap)... that also helps cut down splatter. As far as your seats and dash, dig up as much heavy cardboard as U can, duct tape it in place, then wet it down a little with a spray bottle of water. An old heavy drop cloth wet down may help. I know those are both flamable, but your just tacking and that stuff being damp should be OK. I've used cardboard lots of times for just a small beads or tacking. If somebody else has a different advice, cool.

look forward to pics

WoRM :bsod:

Rock WoRM

02-28-2006, 08:33 PM

Janster, take plenty of pics. I want to see how one of those goes together.
:puzzled: :puzzled:

:repost:

:rotflmao:

:hah:

95yj

02-28-2006, 10:26 PM

If my memory serves me right, and most of the time it doesn't, I think poison spyder caught a lot of flak with the laser cut spyder in the door pieces. I think people said it could possibly weaken the cage or there were specific cases where it had weakened the cage.

Dan90YJ

02-28-2006, 11:11 PM

As for the weld it yourself comment. I dont know your welding skill so I am going to play devils advocate.

Unless you have more than a few hours on the machine and are confident in your welds, is $500 some odd dollars worth a weld breaking and the cage failing in a situation that the said cage should allow you to walk away from.

Check a few other shops. Check a few other boards. You will be amazed at the number of people and shops who have the ability to do it and are more affordable.

Worst case inquire with the shop for just a welding job. IE you tack it in place all assembled and preped and all they have to do is weld. Shouldnt be more than a 2 hr job (at most) at that point.

As far as the on road roll. If I recall someone on here's wife or the like was side swiped by a tractor trailer a few years back with a add on cage and it held up quite well.

And another person also rolled a jeep onroad with a his built or add in cage and he walked away from it.

Me personally I would do it myself, but I am confident in my welds (I've rolled on them a few times) but when you get into tube work, some of your overhead and hard to reach spots can get tricky and out right hard to get a good weld on.

Take it with a grain of salt, but sometimes having it done is money well spent

Dan

wcjp

02-28-2006, 11:53 PM

This flop happened two weeks ago at Walker Valley. The MORE cage stopped the rock from entering the passenger compartment. The windshield had no problem bending until it hit the cage. No one was hurt. Pics and Video (http://www.cascade4x4s.com/pics/2006%20pics/February/Walkervalleybillslide/index.htm)

http://www.cascade4x4s.com/pics/2006%20pics/February/Walkervalleybillslide/images/100_3631.jpg

jeepster93

03-01-2006, 11:01 AM

I looked at several brand of cages...
Or fab, MORE, PSC, and Toys BY Troy were in concideration.
The Psc was the "most protection", and best looking, I thought, and I can roll up and down the windows, which was important to me. The Psc cage also required the most labor to install it. My labor for me is cheap and I am a rather handy type of person, so I can do the welding, and I own a welder. Poison Spider Customs is also a local Colorado Company, and there is nothing wrong with supporting local craftsmanship.
The welder I have is a Hobart "Handler 135", it does use gas. The duty cycle is only 30% though, only 3 minutes use, 7 minutes rest.

Thanks for your continued input...
Saved me $$$...cool

Kooters

03-01-2006, 01:16 PM

Dan90YJ

03-01-2006, 07:51 PM

I use a hobart 135 at work almost every day, I would not be comforable welding a cage with it. Not the best of units.

But thats just me

Rock WoRM

03-01-2006, 08:53 PM

I use a hobart 135 at work almost every day, I would not be comforable welding a cage with it. Not the best of units.

But thats just me
Care to expand on that... I'm currious. I've got a hobart 140. I would'nt think the cage tubing is that heavy. thoughts?

WoRM :bsod:

Dan90YJ

03-01-2006, 11:30 PM

Care to expand on that... I'm currious. I've got a hobart 140. I would'nt think the cage tubing is that heavy. thoughts?

WoRM :bsod:

Having used a variety of welders, in that range, lincoln, miller hobart as well as there 220 counter parts, I feel the hobart is lacking in its smaller units.

I have welded quite a bit with the one at work, it has limited settings for both heat and wire speed. and overall I am just not overly comfortable with it.

Could it do it- yes but someone who is not a very good welder should not (imo) use it to weld something such as a cage. It is not as forgiving as other welders.

Dan

notmYJ

03-01-2006, 11:43 PM

I have welded many many cages in everything from an FJ40 to a 350z to a an M3. If I am using HREW or DOM we will MIG it with a 140 Amp machine. Even with .120 wall tubing, it still gets full penetration.

As for tacking it, then tacking it again, and so on, I wouldn't reccomend it, as you want to be sure you are getting good penetration. The closer you can get to getting it done in one bead, the stronger it should be as you will get proper penetration.

I would reccomend you tack it in place then have a pro weld it. Cage welds are not the time nor the place to practice welding. I am all for DIY, but a couple hundred bucks to ensure your cage will protect you, and not crush you into your seat or worse is money well spent.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but think it through... If you have ANY doubt about your abilities, have it done by a pro. It may just be the difference from walking away, or losing your life.

I mean no harm by this but, "Just because someone will sell you a welder, dosn't mean you ARE a welder."

And just because everyone is itching for some fab pics....

Here a BMW that we did...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/regalracer1979/PDR_0586.jpg

Me burning in the shop
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/regalracer1979/PDR_0859.jpg

Finish welding a cage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/regalracer1979/PDR_0727.jpg

lilgreenjeepyj

03-02-2006, 12:37 AM

I bet I can guess where you got that quote... and I bet it was right down the street from PSC....

Anyways, Id tack it in yourself and then have someone burn it in for you. Thats more or less what I did. Made the measurements, notched the tubes and finally dropped it off to get burnt in. I went with the MORE kit and added on after that. Soon to add more yet.

jeepster93

03-02-2006, 01:29 AM

I bet I can guess where you got that quote... and I bet it was right down the street from PSC....
.
Thats the place...They are expensive, but do good work, or so I hear.
They also specialize in Wrangler, so I have a bunch of thier parts on my jeep. but haven't needed thier labor
Got one other quote from another shop and it was less but not by that much.
I'll call a couple welding shops...

Dznuts™

04-19-2006, 02:33 AM

these cages arent ment to be used over and over and over like rock crawlers...... save your life once kinda deal. im sure they will take a good many small roll overs out on a trail or mud situation. ive seen a few pics of jeeps at speeds up to 65 fliped on the highway with a psc cage and they walked away. it only has to work once! but the guys are right. if you have ANY doubts you should tack it and let someone else (professional) finish weld it. use those gussetts! good luck and def. put up some pics when your done! :knokwood:

jeepster93

04-19-2006, 11:00 AM

So, Sense this came up again, I thought I would let you all know what I did...
I went to a welding class and learned to do a good bead. The class took 4 hours and had 20 students, 2 teachers. The cost of the class was only like $25. It was only offered to wheelers by a local shops certified welders. VERY COOL...Certainly this class DID NOT make me a welder, but I can weld. Also went out and got a tank of C-25 gas to make cleaner welds.
I welded the cage in myself...
Got some 3/16 sheet steel and cut 16 gussets out of it, each about 2x3 inches, and welded them to all corners. This baby is in to stay...
Poison Spyder says any major tweek to this cage requires it to be inspected /replaced. A one time useage type thing...Still better than loosing my life or ride due to a stupid mistake.
No pics as a black cage in a black jeep makes for a BAD photo.

Tough91YJ

04-19-2006, 12:16 PM

bad photo better than no photo, take a pic!!

Rock WoRM

04-19-2006, 02:41 PM

I welded the cage in myself...

No pics as a black cage in a black jeep makes for a BAD photo.

:redx3: :redx2: :picsign:

:repost:

:ttiwwop:

we will not let U rest untill...

WoRM :bsod:

jeepster93

04-19-2006, 04:05 PM

:ttiwwop:

I do owe a couple of pics...you are right...
Remember, I do not profess my welding prowess
A couple notes:
Only installed one grab handle on pass side as driver don't need it
Moved front spreader back about 4 inches to allow sun visors.
Dash bolts were all replaced with grade 8's
It was a lot of work...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/cewtwo/IMG_2279.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/cewtwo/IMG_2282.jpg

95yj

04-19-2006, 07:27 PM

I have since put the same cage in my, about 2 weeks ago. I sure hope yours went in better than mine.

jeepster93

04-19-2006, 07:52 PM

I have since put the same cage in my, about 2 weeks ago. I sure hope yours went in better than mine.
Gaurenteed it was a lot of work..and...
it did not fit right, had to adjust the length of most of it, and I moved the spreader 3-4 inches, and had to shorten 2 other pipes, and then the grab handle would not fit, and I have steps that wanted the same place on the floor as the cage, and now a speaker isn't working...
Something like that?
I know your pain....

Rock WoRM

04-19-2006, 08:21 PM

1 ton yj

04-19-2006, 10:31 PM

Even the way that area is now, it is still much stronger than the cowl it's bolted to. I can't see in the picture, and I've never messed with mail order stuff, but does that cage tie to the floor?

From pictures I've seen, my only negative feedback on that cage are the lack of frame tie-ins and the lack of lateral support. But I guess it's marketed towards street Jeeps and I am not in the mindset of thier intended customer.

Still better than that BS exhaust tube seatbelt bar that comes in the Jeep

jeepster93

04-20-2006, 12:27 AM

I like it. :yup:

Did the grab handles come with the kit?

however... I would strongly think about bracing, gusseting, or trianglulating the transition above the speaker where it ties in with the tubing. IMHO, that is the main weak spot of this cage. It would'nt take much to help strengthen it up a bit. :shades:

WoRM :bsod:
The handles were an option($34)
The transition from tube to plate is gusseted with ones that came with the kit, and the mounting leg is well welded together.
The weak point as I see it is no frame tie in. It is bolted to the floor by a 6x8 x 3/8 inch piece of plate steel, that is welded to the triangular leg of the cage. hope that makes sense??

1 ton,
If you mean a mail order cage as a drop in and go cage... This is not that. This cage really is nothing more than a bunch of pre-bent tubing that needs to be fit into the jeep, this took hours of grinding and fitting. The welding was the easy part. ;)

95yj

04-20-2006, 01:22 AM

Yeah, my spreaders were coped wrong, and 5 inches too long. I didn't like the door-brace bars at all (and the picture on their website shows a tj and not a yj unless you click on the full cage kit, which I didn't because I wasn't interested in it). The door-brace bars did not fit correctly, I ended up having to beat the inside seam of my door in to get my doors to close correctly.

The thing that I keep kicking myself about is, I work with a very close friend of mine with a hydro bender all the time. Making the cage was no problem, I just didn't think I had the time to bend, cope, and get it all together before our big ride, so I just bought one. I probably spent more time getting this one to work right than if I'd fabbed my own. Now I'm kicking myself for it.

Rock WoRM

04-20-2006, 11:19 AM

The handles were an option($34)
The transition from tube to plate is gusseted with ones that came with the kit, and the mounting leg is well welded together.

After looking closer, I see it now. I think I would add some more... I've watched Zman's roll over too many times. :clapping:

WoRM :bsod:

nofd843

05-19-2006, 02:38 AM

Hey Jeepster,
How did you get the parking brake to work? I am getting ready to install my cage in a 95 YJ and I noticed there is not enough clearance for the pull handle (release). Any pics of that area?

Thanks

Cope

jeepster93

05-19-2006, 10:32 AM

Ha Ha Ha
I had the same question about the brake you have...
The pedal can be reached ok as is, it does not come in contact with the cage leg.
The handle..I hooked up a vice grips and bent it towards the pass side about 2 inches and turned the knob sideways, works great.
Hope that helps...let me know if pics are wanted.

Also if you have a hardtop... you will loose those straps that keep the door from swinging too far, I really missed those... ended up making some....you can kinda see em in the pic(the brite yellow straps)

nofd843

05-19-2006, 10:42 AM

Thanks for the info, you would think PSC would say something about it or have a solution (hopefully they reply to my email before the weekend starts). It doesn't sound too technical, I should be able to get it bent. Bending it was the direction I was leaning towards, I just wwanted to make sure I wasn't over looking something more obvious.

Thanks again

Cope

jeepster93

05-19-2006, 11:49 AM

No, your not missing anything. Excactly the same reaction I had, when I saw where the leg went. I have a friend with the cage, so I called him all unhappy like saying WTF... He laughs and gives me the scoop. So I think this info is secret and should only be givin out as needed, kinda like a install right of passage. In 3 month a fellow wheeler will come to you and ask...WTF? ...right of passage.