MORE Traction Bar is on (Lots of pics)

[Joe Dillard]

For us YJ guys who are SOA, it's almost a must to run a traction bar. I've had my RE 1.5" SOA leafs installed for a little over 2 years and it came time to add a traction bar. Axle wrap was becoming more & more of an issue. I looked at a few different designs & considered making my own. After considering my options, I decided to go with the MORE.

Here's a few pics of how the install went today. Many thanks to mrblaine for his expert assistance & welding skills. :)

1/4"x2" tcase skid reinforcement plate goes in. It's bent & molded to the contour of the skid. Also, a vertical plate is added to the rear section & shaped to add the the strength of things.

http://www.fototime.com/0FB02419673D8A8/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/1D88651346F5BDA/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/1017237984FB669/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/32F75ECC0ECDB3C/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/F622C214E002E28/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/5ED74DD21D961CA/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/AB58A301383F8E9/standard.jpg
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http://www.fototime.com/ABADE2BA8DFC580/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/2C68C432339DC22/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/B187C68E67626C9/standard.jpg

[wcjp]

Great pics Joe. Never understood why the MORE kit required a little extension for the skid plate.

[Joe Dillard]

Yep, it needs a little "fine tuning" to get it to work for each application. :)

Chris designed it so that it could be used for lots of Jeeps. Each installation is left up to the imagination of the owner & how well the shackle and tube end is adapted.

[Jays89YJ]

-=- originally posted by Joe Dillard -=-
Yep, it needs a little "fine tuning" to get it to work for each application. :)

Chris designed it so that it could be used for lots of Jeeps. Each installation is left up to the imagination of the owner & how well the shackle and tube end is adapted.

Joe, how much did that cost? Will that allow you enough droop offroad? It eliminates axle hop and spring bind on road? I'm interested.:agree:

[JRowe]

Nice pics!

If anyone is interested in one of these, Road Head has one for sale, BRAND NEW. PM him for info.

[Jays89YJ]

-=- originally posted by JRowe -=-
Nice pics!

If anyone is interested in one of these, Road Head has one for sale, BRAND NEW. PM him for info.

Did he buy 2 or something?:puzzled:

[jeepik]

-=- originally posted by JRowe -=-
Nice pics!

If anyone is interested in one of these, Road Head has one for sale, BRAND NEW. PM him for info.

thanks i sent him a PMi need to order one anyhow

[Joe Dillard]

Hi Jay,

It ran ~$220 & the quality is top notch!

If I could change anything about it's design - it would be to eliminate the 3 predrilled holes on the shackle mount bracket. I suppose for some applications they could come in handy depending on the tcase skid location, but since I was welding it inplace, they detract slightly from it strengthwise. I don't foresee it as an issue at this point, but if they weren't there, I would like it even more.

It's designed not to bind in any fashion. The upper shackle mount uses a heim bearing so that the traction bar can twist as wheels get stuffed side to side, but still eliminates axle wrap at the same time.

Also, the upper mount at the axle end is threaded to fine tune the bar as leafs fatigue or as shackle mount angle & depth is variable depending how it's mounted or attached to the skid. Ideally, you want to have an imaginary 90* angle between the shackle & the center reinforcement plate holes of the bar.

Axle wrap/hop is minimized, on & off road. Last weekend I had lots of axle wrap while doing some of the tougher obsticals in Moab. This item will greatly reduce or more than likely eliminate the axle wrap altogether. I'll know better after I test it on my next run. :)

[JRowe]

-=- originally posted by Jays89YJ -=-
Did he buy 2 or something?:puzzled:


No, he only bought one.

He bought it while redoing the suspension (SOA), then decided to stay sprung under in the rear with 4" waggy lift springs. Now he doesn't need it and is therefore selling it.

[zman]

My kit from Sam's Off Road is almost identical except for that adjustable upper mount on the axel, sure wish I had that. My shackle piece has the same three holes, and they are useless. I did manage to break my traction bar off in Utah last week, but using a 115v Mig welder was not the right tool. I had a guy with a $6500 welder fix it up for me yesterday (as well as redo my perches and tube/diff welds on the 8.8). One thing that I did to the shackle mount was weld a piece of 1/4 flat steel to the top of the eye to prevent it from bending up. I did not do it on my first attempt and it bent the steel on that cheezy shackle mount upward. My articulation is still pretty good, and this should help me from breaking anymore rear DS.

zman

[zman]

I see you have still not washed off that Moab red dirt. :rotflmao:

http://www.fototime.com/B347CFDA67E6F1C/standard.jpg

[Joe Dillard]

-=- originally posted by zman -=-
I see you have still not washed off that Moab red dirt. :rotflmao:

Yep, the entire undercarriage needs attention. :o: :pthh:

I was thinking about using my Hobart 115V 135amp MIG & mix bottle and run a few practice beads to see what the differences were compared to Blaines 220V 185amp MIG, but I brain farted & didn't bring it. Oh well, maybe next time. :) His welder kicks booty! :clapping:

If the shackle mount starts showing signs of bending, I'll reinforce it similar to what you've did. I'll keep an eye on things.

[muddiejeep]

watch your skidplate. i have the one from sams (samething) and i cracked my skid plate 3 times already. also watch the welds around were the bars connect to the axle bracket i had them open up b/c the welds broke.

[Hackle]

It is about time you broke down and installled a traction bar Joe:) You lasted a lot longer then I did without one.

[Jays89YJ]

Joe, is your skid plate stock? It kinda has that shape to it. I'm liking this setup...:beerchug:

The part that welds to the axle... is there a sleeve around the axle tube, or just that crescent shape? I'm running a D44 back there... should be able to weld on no problem right? I'm not sure if your 8.8 has a thicker tube that's all. What did you use, 1/4 X 1/4" welds?

[Joe Dillard]

Hackle,

It's pure luck I suppose. I'm surprised too how long this set-up has lasted without failure out back. Granted, I don't do trails like Terminator on a heavy regular basis, but it gets a work-out fairly often. Last summer I wheeled it for ~30 days strait while doing a cross country state to state off-road vacation. :) Plus many trips before & after that with minimum troubles.

Jay,
Yep, it's the stock '91 skid. What you see for the 2 rear brackets that weld to the axle tubes, is about it, nothing is hidden. I altered mine just a bit in 2 areas. I believe they are cut to fit directly ~1/2 way around ~2 3/4" axle tube. The 8.8 has 3 1/4" tubes, so we used a metal hole saw, a little cutting oil, & drill press, on the 1/4" plates to widen them up some. ~5 minutes is all it took on the press to do the trick.

You probably won't have to grind/cut the brackets at all for your D44.

Another area I altered was the outer axle tube bracket. I notched it for clearance where the axle breather & hydraulic lines are so I could service them in the future if the need arose.

The brackets were first tact on, then welded completely top to bottom around the tubes. Blaines welder is very hot & fast!

[James (Cubby) Culbertson]

Hiya Joe,
I'd be curious after you've had it on awhile, to see how much this thing moves around (up/down, side to side). I need to do something similar but have an OBA air tank on my driver's side. Consequently, thinking of putting it on the passenger side but not sure how long the muffler would last :).
Cheers,
cc

[Jays89YJ]

-=- originally posted by Joe Dillard -=-
Jay,
Yep, it's the stock '91 skid. What you see for the 2 rear brackets that weld to the axle tubes, is about it, nothing is hidden. I altered mine just a bit in 2 areas. I believe they are cut to fit directly ~1/2 way around ~2 3/4" axle tube. The 8.8 has 3 1/4" tubes, so we used a metal hole saw, a little cutting oil, & drill press, on the 1/4" plates to widen them up some. ~5 minutes is all it took on the press to do the trick.

You probably won't have to grind/cut the brackets at all for your D44.

Another area I altered was the outer axle tube bracket. I notched it for clearance where the axle breather & hydraulic lines are so I could service them in the future if the need arose.

The brackets were first tact on, then welded completely top to bottom around the tubes. Blaines welder is very hot & fast!

I am also interested if it's loud or slams around down there while on the road. You probably don't drive your Jeep on the road huh?

[zman]

-=- originally posted by Jays89YJ -=-
I am also interested if it's loud or slams around down there while on the road. You probably don't drive your Jeep on the road huh?

You don't even know its there, on or offroad.

[Joe Dillard]

James,
Unless your tank is mounted quite a ways from the framerail, my guess is that the bar will fit just fine on the drivers side. I'll take a few measurements & maybe snap a pic or two to give you a better idea as to if if would still work.

Jay,
I spoke to Chris Overacker (code5337 here on JU, http://www.code4x4.com/index.html ) designer of this bar for Allen who now owns MORE, & Chris mentioned better traction being applied to the ground, on or off-road, since axle wrap should be history as long as it's installed properly (which I believe mine is).

Like zman mentioned, it should be transparent to the driver that it's there with the exception of better linear power applied to the wheels. As long as all the bushings aren't overtightened & it's greased well, it should allow the axle to move naturally throughout it's arc.

[Jays89YJ]

-=- originally posted by zman -=-
You don't even know its there, on or offroad.

Sweet.

[nosliw]

it may just be the pics, but the shackle angle looks off a little bit.

if you're getting some weird binding under throttle, i would check it. in case you didn't already know, the shackle needs to be 90 degrees from the horizontal at suspension rest, or else it will oscillate.

edit: I had a traction bar on my SOA YJ and didn't like it on steep hillclimbs. My shackle angle was off in the beginning which probably accounted for a lot of the characteristics i hated. after i fixed the angle, i twisted an axle tube in the housing. the jeep wanted to lift too much for me. 4 link!
:brows:

[Joe Dillard]

-=- originally posted by Joe Dillard -=-
Also, the upper mount at the axle end is threaded to fine tune the bar as leafs fatigue or as shackle mount angle & depth is variable depending how it's mounted or attached to the skid. Ideally, you want to have an imaginary 90* angle between the shackle & the center reinforcement plate holes of the bar.


Yep, knew that already. :beerchug:

-=- originally posted by nosliw -=-
it may just be the pics, but the shackle angle looks off a little bit.

if you're getting some weird binding under throttle, i would check it. in case you didn't already know, the shackle needs to be 90 degrees from the horizontal at suspension rest, or else it will oscillate.

[Hackle]

I have seen all the pics of the anti-wrap bars on this thread and (up to this point stayed away from posting mine) I have to put this up. While many places offer the normal bar to everyone some local fab shops are willing to build sopmething also. The pic below is of an anti-wrap bar built by a local fab shop Hunter Offroad (He also just built me front bumper and shackle reversal hangers).

http://members.cox.net/hackle/img32.jpg

This pic should show that even though it is a YJ and everyone knows they don't flex the bar does not hinder my flex. I have had thei bar for a couple years.

http://members.cox.net/hackle/Ruler_1.jpg

[nosliw]

i had opted to assemble something like this:

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/images/DCP_0891.JPG

the "bam-bar" tech article can be found here at Jeepaholics.com :

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

supposedly by adding a conventional traction bar, you're altering your anti-squat percentage to ? (something more than 100%...100% is neutral i believe). by transfering the reactive forces to somewhere other than in front of your axle (above it) anti-squat percentage is not affected. :agree:

i would think the shackle would need to be parallel to prevent a "squat" in the rear under torque....i dunno

:beerchug: :clapping: :clapping:

[Joe Dillard]

Hackle, nosliw,

Please always feel free to post pics or comment on opinions of any items or other options available that are out there! :) Yours, and everyone elses feedback is valuable to me, and taken and digested as good knowledge to hear and learn about.

Our sport is always evolving and so are the items available. I'm always interested in feedback from folks who have had experiances with products across the full spectrum. Custom, homebrew, or anything else. :)

The "bam bar" is certainly unique & I've read & seen the jeepaholics artical about it before and enjoyed it's information. Thanks for sharing! :)

[jeepik]

Hackle nice very nice i always liked your anti wrap bar, however that flex picture doesnt show the rear end flexing at all :)

i know it does, just a bad picture

[Jays89YJ]

-=- originally posted by nosliw -=-
i had opted to assemble something like this:

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/images/DCP_0891.JPG

the "bam-bar" tech article can be found here at Jeepaholics.com :

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

:beerchug: :clapping: :clapping:

That thing is crazy! :eek: Check out that shackle!

[zman]

-=- originally posted by Joe Dillard -=-
Hackle, nosliw,

Please always feel free to post pics or comment on opinions of any items or other options available that are out there! :) Yours, and everyone elses feedback is valuable to me, and taken and digested as good knowledge to hear and learn about.

Our sport is always evolving and so are the items available. I'm always interested in feedback from folks who have had experiances with products across the full spectrum. Custom, homebrew, or anything else. :)

The "bam bar" is certainly unique & I've read & seen the jeepaholics artical about it before and enjoyed it's information. Thanks for sharing! :)

Ditto, lot alot of good stuff on here lately, and less negitive stuff to.:beerchug:

[Hackle]

-=- originally posted by jeepik -=-
Hackle nice very nice i always liked your anti wrap bar, however that flex picture doesnt show the rear end flexing at all :)

i know it does, just a bad picture

You are right in one case it is great pic of front flex but you can not see the rear to tell if it flexes. This should do better (but I hate non trail pics) note to self get more pics from behind the Jeep:brows:

http://members.cox.net/hackle/KIF_0047.JPG

[Joe Dillard]

To tell you the truth, I believe Hackles traction bar is a great design! :beerchug:

I say this mainly due to the manner it swings upward, which helps it stay out of harms way better. Plus, judgeing by the pics, it looks as if it doesn't steel any ground clearance onder the axle tubes. NICE!! :agree:

[zman]

Hackle,

Are you using the stock rear upper shock mounts. Also, what rear springs are you using?

zman

[Hackle]

Stock rear upper mounts: No I have the More kit to raise them.
The rear springs are now RE 2.5 ED. They seem to be hoding up fine as they are over a year old and work great. I had Rancho 2.5 on it before and they did not last at all. The fronts are still Rancho 2.5 rears but are reaching the end of there life. They are 2 years old so I may use them again.
Jim F.

[Hackle]

-=- originally posted by zman -=-
Ditto, lot alot of good stuff on here lately, and less negitive stuff to.:beerchug:

This thread has been great, lots of ideas and great input no negitives. Just the exchange of information to help each other.

[BrackneyC]

Looks great Joe, and so do all of the other bars.

Joe, keep an eye on that skidplate mounted shackle. I have seen a few of them tear off,( from the plate) or crack very badly. I chose to use a crossmember for mine, running it all of the way across the frame just behind the skidplate. This not only gives me a super anchor point for the traction bar, but I believe it also reinforces the frame.

Sadly, I am no longer SOA due to steering issues that I can't afford to work out right now. I do however continue to use the traction bar to shore up the springs due to the vast amount of torque applied to the springs due to my recently "heated up" 383 stroker. I plan to switch the springs once I can afford the steering correction kit. My steering wasn't that bad, but I wasn't comfortable with it on long commutes to the trail. I may be worrying over nothing, but for now, I'll be SUA, with a super traction bar. :)

[James (Cubby) Culbertson]

Hackle,
How much did that traction bar run you? I sent Hunter Offroad an email but haven't heard back yet.

Any ideas of how much side to side movement you get from it? Per my message above, I've got an air tank mounted on that side and am worried about the two of them conflicting.

Cheers,
cc

[Hackle]

Hunter will have to give you a price he built this 4 years ago and steel is expensive right now.
As to side to side I doubt there is to much but have never hung under the jeep on the trail to see:)

[Joe Dillard]

-=- originally posted by BrackneyC -=-
Joe, keep an eye on that skidplate mounted shackle. I have seen a few of them tear off,( from the plate) or crack very badly. I chose to use a crossmember for mine, running it all of the way across the frame just behind the skidplate. This not only gives me a super anchor point for the traction bar, but I believe it also reinforces the frame.
Hi Craig,

Yep, excellent points & these are certainly a concerns of mine. I've looked at a handfull of traction bar forward mounting designs, and there seems to be a fairly proportional mix between tcase reinforced mounting and crossmember systems. I believe both will do the trick if done correctly.

However, the crossmember systems I've looked at seem to provide better added strength in more ways than the other. I don't run much horsepower & my current gears aren't all that low (no 4:1, just 4.56 R&P), so my current thinking is I'll be ok. I guess we'll see. :)

If I run into troubles down the road, I'll look into either reinforcing it more, or swapping to a crossmember style forward mounting configuration.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! :)