Performing a search on JU is painful (merged) [Archive]

CerOf

06-27-2002, 09:37 PM

I don't know how many times it's been posted, but this forum is run as a seperate entity.

An analogy that you all may understand: Kraft v. Miller Brewing.

Same company, different entities.

Both file taxes under their own name. Only thing of note is that they both own significant stock in each other.

Same thing with this forum I'd imagine.

www.Jeepsunlimited.com is it's own entity and is self sufficient on its own (don't know for sure its financial statements, but that is its goal I'm sure)

Like all stock holders, I'm sure 4WDH has invested plant, property, and capital into this website and expects Jeepsunlimited in time to increase 4WDH's shareholder earnings.

So, make sense?

While a stock holder invests in a company, sometimes it takes a while for those funds to actually get put into the works as stock holders have to approve of what the "board of directors" (admins) wish to do with the funds. Once approved them I'm sure things can happen.

Okay, I know someone is going to take this analogy and blow it WAY WAY out of proportion, so please, don't.

This is an internet bulletin board that is FREE and things take time, especially when the influx of capital is negligable and can probably, barely keep up with the demand. I wouldn't be surprised if JU is losing money, but you gotta lose money at first to generally turn a profit. Of which all the profit is being funneld back into the site as of right now, I'd venture to guess.

Again, this is all speculation, I can write up a detailed report of what *I* think JU is doing and should do and more than likely it would probably be pretty accurate as most business strategies are similar. Increase profit and maximize shareholder interests while please the consumer the majority of the time.

Like Kraft and Miller Brewing, some people like Cheese, some don't, some people don't like beer (a crime if you as me ;)) some love beer!

So, in summary, be patient, they are learning the system and the software as we go along and are upgrading after thinking through everything.

Have a Great weekend everyone!!

anestech*

06-28-2002, 02:54 AM

Yeah, I get you. I just have noticed the recent flux in the quantity and quality of "new members" and figure that it is due to the increased adverstising done by 4WDH (a company I had never heard of until I found JU). And as such, I feel that they should contribute to the maintainance and well being of this site, if not directly, at least monetarily (sp?).

Yeah, I know I'm being impatient, but I am waiting to make some purchases based on info I have seen in the archieves and am trying to find again. Actually, CerOf, you would probably know. I am trying to confirm my recollection that the SJ RR 6" XJ coils will give me 5.5-6" on my V8 ZJ. From what I remember from reading post about the group buy spring, that was the case. Let me know if this is what you remember to be true.

Thanks for clarifying the situation, it is just difficult when things "ain't like they use ta be."

el stupido

07-07-2002, 03:42 PM

Just tried it. No worky. First I get "loads too high", then "Sorry! The administrator has specified that you can only do one search every 15 seconds."

The first usually means config error. Disabling the search feature when system load is high is a bad idea.

Disabling the search feature when system load is high is a bad idea. Did I say that already? ;)

It discourages use of the search feature (bad) and leads to repetitive posts (bad), both of which increase system load. One-to-many tools are a very good thing. Pretty please, do fix.

The second error message is clearly confused programming.

Dave

weldon

07-31-2002, 01:19 PM

Search function has been returning "Unavailable due to high system loads" for 2 days now, plus navigation can get very slow, even time out. And I'm on a 1.2 Mb connection. Sounds like it's time for some server clustering fellas, maybe move to a host with more bandwidth and clustering available. I know this costs money, but a search function is useless if you can't use it. Another suggestion: I've built boards like this in ASP. Hopefully you're back-end is on an actual SQL server and not plunking along on MySQL or Access.

Webtech

07-31-2002, 03:48 PM

Specific to the search, the problem is an I/O bottleneck ~~ reading the 3.5Gb search index table.
Hardware upgrade will include a Platypus QikDrive (ramdrive) to house the index.
For more details on the upgrade, please read the other posts in this subforum.

MuddyGrommet

07-31-2002, 07:16 PM

Ok, everytime I come here, I can't search for information about things I'm wanting to do to my jeep. Why is the search feature being disabled by the admin??

I'm tired of not being able to search these forums... Can someone point me to a better site that has search enabled?

TJx2

07-31-2002, 08:23 PM

www.nowhining.com

MuddyGrommet

07-31-2002, 08:32 PM

LOL, that was helpful, tjx2.
After having vented my frustration, I feel much better. It also seems to have fixed the search feature. :p

krayola

07-31-2002, 09:22 PM

When there are extremely HIGH system loads... the BB is set up to disable the search so that it doesn't bog down the system even further. Usually if you wait about 5 or 10 minutes and try again things are fine. Its unbelievable how much stress searchEs cause to the server....... Things will get better... as soon as the new servers etc... are up and running. :)

TJx2

07-31-2002, 09:25 PM

I just keep hitting the refresh button as fast as I can until the system figures out that I am the most important person here and that I am requesting to do a search, dammit! :D

krayola

07-31-2002, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by TJx2
I just keep hitting the refresh button as fast as I can until the system figures out that I am the most important person here and that I am requesting to do a search, dammit! :D

Thats one way I guess... but that probably just causes more pain on our already weak servers back... heh... :o

Who am I kidding... I do the same thing :D

j/k..........

MuddyGrommet

07-31-2002, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by TJx2
I just keep hitting the refresh button as fast as I can until the system figures out that I am the most important person here and that I am requesting to do a search, dammit! :D

I tried the same thing, but I think the server is set to look at the number of posts a person has and set his/her priority level accordingly. Unfortunately, I am relatively new here and more of a lurker, so I am pretty low on it's priority list. :)

It's good to know that the server is just protecting itself. I guess I'd rather have the site up and viewable, then down because some selfish ass like me just absolutely had to search for something. :D

I've learned my lesson. I'll be more patient.

krayola

07-31-2002, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by MuddyGrommet

I tried the same thing, but I think the server is set to look at the number of posts a person has and set his/her priority level accordingly. Unfortunately, I am relatively new here and more of a lurker, so I am pretty low on it's priority list. :)

It's good to know that the server is just protecting itself. I guess I'd rather have the site up and viewable, then down because some selfish ass like me just absolutely had to search for something. :D

I've learned my lesson. I'll be more patient.

Well.... MuddyGrommet... theres no Priority lists here... heheheheee... Thanks for understanding! We shouldn't run into these problems ever again once we've got the new servers!

weldon

08-01-2002, 09:17 PM

Get some fiber-channel action going on your array and archive more often maybe? Hey....we can't bitch. Just goes to show you you're providing a valuable service...for free I may add.

1985CJ7Laredo

08-05-2002, 03:16 PM

Is the search function ever going to work again?

rwsr50

08-05-2002, 04:51 PM

GOOD QUESTION! :confused:

In a desparate attempt the other day to find out what happened to it, I did a search, for SEARCH , but alas...search wasn't working! :(

John Strenk

08-05-2002, 05:21 PM

I think only one person at a time can use it. :)

Hurry! HurrY ! I just tried ! It's working !!!

:eek:

krayola

08-05-2002, 05:40 PM

When the server has high system loads the search is automatically disabled so that things don't get further bogged down. Usually if you try it again in 5 minutes things are fine.

DH350

08-05-2002, 06:55 PM

Sorry to sound like a dick here but LONG SIGS do not help the situation either, Krayola. The infomation contained within a sig may be useful but exsesively long sigs bog the system as well. Just remember that this was a complaint not too long ago. And yes I know my sig is not all that short it self.

lbrty9

08-14-2002, 01:37 PM

How about an update? This post is about a month and a half old and the search is still not working well. Did the hardware get installed?

Greg

Originally posted by webtech
FWIW, I'm AT LEAST as frustrated with the current search slowness and frequent unavailability as any of you are. (The servers are hosted remotely. That means my searches are as slow as yours.)

I'm pleased to announce here, in advance of the formal, site-wide announcement, that there's light at the end of the tunnel!

Within the coming month, we will be performing a "QUANTUM LEAP" upgrade.
It will include the addition of a dedicated forums db server,
as well as a $$$ 4Gb+ solid-state drive (ramdrive)
(I think it's the Platypus QikDrive8 http://www.platypus.net/20qikdrive.asp )

Fast?
A month from now, to anyone accessing JeepsUnlimited forums via a cable modem,
"fast" will seem like an understatement!
(Yep, INCLUDING the search function.)

RuffRidr

08-16-2002, 11:38 AM

I agree, we could use an update please! It is getting very, very aggravating using the search function on this site. I've been "trying" to research a Chevy engine swap. I know the info is on here because I have seen it before. But trying to find it now is liking trying to pull teeth with a tweezers.

Originally posted by lbrty9
How about an update? This post is about a month and a half old and the search is still not working well. Did the hardware get installed?

Greg

ECKSJAY

08-17-2002, 02:02 AM

To give someone else a chance maybe? ;)

89XJClay

08-17-2002, 03:32 AM

What??? You mean you have had the search function actually work not only once, but two times in a freakin row!?!?! You lucky SOB!!!!!!!!

Clay

anestech*

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Is their a way that we can post updates about the search issue on this board. I REALLY need to look up some info in the archeives and the search STILL won't work. I either get timed out or get the "high system loads" question.

Thanks in advance

Webtech

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

FWIW, I'm AT LEAST as frustrated with the current search slowness and frequent unavailability as any of you are. (The servers are hosted remotely. That means my searches are as slow as yours.)

I'm pleased to announce here, in advance of the formal, site-wide announcement, that there's light at the end of the tunnel!

Within the coming month, we will be performing a "QUANTUM LEAP" upgrade.
It will include the addition of a dedicated forums db server,
as well as a $$$ 4Gb+ solid-state drive (ramdrive)
(I think it's the Platypus QikDrive8 http://www.platypus.net/20qikdrive.asp )

Fast?
A month from now, to anyone accessing JeepsUnlimited forums via a cable modem,
"fast" will seem like an understatement!
(Yep, INCLUDING the search function.)

norcaljr

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by webtech
FWIW, I'm AT LEAST as frustrated with the current search slowness and frequent unavailability as any of you are. (The servers are hosted remotely. That means my searches are as slow as yours.)

I'm pleased to announce here, in advance of the formal, site-wide announcement, that there's light at the end of the tunnel!

Within the coming month, we will be performing a "QUANTUM LEAP" upgrade.
It will include the addition of a dedicated forums db server,
as well as a $$$ 4Gb+ solid-state drive (ramdrive)
(I think it's the Platypus QikDrive8 http://www.platypus.net/20qikdrive.asp )

Fast?
A month from now, to anyone accessing JeepsUnlimited forums via a cable modem,
"fast" will seem like an understatement!
(Yep, INCLUDING the search function.)

Sweet !!!!

OhioJGCL

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Just tried it and the search works great for me!

rix85XJphx

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by webtech
. . . I'm pleased to announce here, in advance of the formal, site-wide announcement, that there's light at the end of the tunnel! . . .
Within the coming month, we will be performing a "QUANTUM LEAP" upgrade. . .

Fast?
A month from now, to anyone accessing JeepsUnlimited forums via a cable modem, "fast" will seem like an understatement!

Cool!! JU is getting NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSS! :D :D

Seems like monetarily, upgrading the website equipment is kinda like building a Jeep: It just takes time to do everything you want.

FWIW, I think JU has been progressing nicely, and the administration has been dealing with the vibes and 'death wobble' appropriately.
To complete the analogy, we're still driving and wheeling, and the ride and performance are improving weekly. :D :D

Peace. -Rick

Daless2

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Performing a Search on JU is Painful

Generally I dislike when I complain about things instead of making an effort that would contribute to solving a problem.
But in this case folks I am at a loss.

JU is a great forum, and over time many folks have contributed their knowledge to this forum.

The search feature on JU is one of the most value features on this forum for it enables access to the knowledge contained here and contributed by so many.

Yet for months the Search Feature has not worked with anything close to consistency.

This morning I wanted to do a simple search in the Wrangler Archives.

The system took the search, went about making me wait for some length of time and then presented back the message

"Sorry -- no matches Please try some different terms "

I did another simple seach, and received the same results.

What was I searching for this time? My User ID "Daless2"

(I tried 6 or 7 other searches and they all ended with the same result. Nothing Found.)

Folks, I understand that when software upgrades are made it is expected that for some period of time there are bugs that may need to be flushed out.

Yet this issue with the search function is approaching the ridiculous.

Perhaps some additional focus can be put on fixing the issue with the JU Search function.

I know I for one would be grateful to have the JU search ability back.

Having an archive from 3/99 to 6/02 does little good if one has to read all seven hundred thousand posts to find what your looking for.

In the mean time, perhaps it would be a less frustrating to "Disable Searching" until the issues are resolved. At least folks won't be wasting their time, and you will not be wasting CPU cycles and band width in a failing effort.

Is there any chance we can get an update on what efforts are being invested to resolve this issue and some reasonable timeline as to when we can expect a resolution???

Thanks in advance,

Frank

RocknCJ

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

I agree completely Frank.
Since the software "upgrade" the search has been of little to no value.
The search function button should be removed until the problems are fixed, because trying to use it just pi$$e$ people off (especially me).

I hope this thread gets the attention of the people in charge....

{Edit} All this is not mentioning that, since the software "upgrade" I have recieved more spam to the email account I use exclusively for JU. The email account I use is getting as bad as a Hotmail account. This spam never happened before the upgrade and it doesn't happen on my other email accounts.

zazlo

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Used it this morning ,took a little while but patience is a virtue.Ever think you guys might be bad VO-DOOOOOOOO

JEEP_TJ_FREAK

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

I totally agree.

I think I understand the issue as well though.

Querys can hog some serious resources but geeze if this isn't profitable sell it off to someone who wants it as a hobby and will not be eyeballing the bottom line. It is pretty obvious that the banners are not changing very often actually they almost always seem to be ads for the sister company, occasionally an OnBoardAir.com one too but thats it. To me that isn't a very good indication that the JeepsUnlimited venture is sucsessful.

Oh yeah and in before it got moderated. ;)

BrandonM7

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

I agree, and I must say this problem must be pretty real if it makes Frank complain - he seems to be one of the hardest people here to irritate!

I also think there must be some setting that can make the search pages not force a browser to refresh -- as it is set now, it forces a refresh everytime you go back to it - what I mean is, if I run a search on my userid, and by some miracle I don't get the "server is too busy" or "no matches found" message, and actually get some results, if I click on a thread and read it, then click back, it runs the search again, and of course that time you'll get the "server is too busy" message. It's called a "forced refresh," and there's bound to be a setting to disable it in this software somewhere - in fact, I'd bet it would reduce the system loads greatly, so maybe the search would work more often.

GriptrukTJ

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

I agree, it is MUCH less usefull since the upgrade. it's ok when it works, but i have had a real tough time finding any info on death wobble, even though i know there have been hundreds of posts on it.
Another feature it should have, which i don't think it does, would be to be able to select a default forum to search. Because right now, you have to select it each time, and i'm sure most people either search the wrangler forum exclusively, or whichever one the generally participate in. That we be helpful i beleive.

tj2kbob

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

My question is this...One would think that since a large company has purchased this BBS with more funding and manpower,why is it worse now then it was with Chris's limited manpower and funding????

JEEP_TJ_FREAK

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by BrandonM7
I also think there must be some setting that can make the search pages not force a browser to refresh -- as it is set now, it forces a refresh everytime you go back to it - what I mean is, if I run a search on my userid, and by some miracle I don't get the "server is too busy" or "no matches found" message, and actually get some results, if I click on a thread and read it, then click back, it runs the search again, and of course that time you'll get the "server is too busy" message.

Hmm that does seem very logical, but I am not sure that it is forced refresh or just the php that causes it, I guess if you can cache it locally it would cut down alot, might be a solution.

FAM

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by BrandonM7
II also think there must be some setting that can make the search pages not force a browser to refresh -- as it is set now, it forces a refresh everytime you go back to it - what I mean is, if I run a search on my userid, and by some miracle I don't get the "server is too busy" or "no matches found" message, and actually get some results, if I click on a thread and read it, then click back, it runs the search again, and of course that time you'll get the "server is too busy" message. It's called a "forced refresh," and there's bound to be a setting to disable it in this software somewhere - in fact, I'd bet it would reduce the system loads greatly, so maybe the search would work more often.

Here's an idea that would work to get around this problem. When you do your search you get the list of returned items. If you right click on the item you want to read and then select "Open in new window" it will open a new browser window to let you read the item. And it leaves the search results window alone.

hth,
Fred

Mark Stamper

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

the search still sucks. it should not be that big of a problem to have the seach work right even when there are alot of members using the board.

80% of the time i get the busy thing.:( :mad: :confused:

RocknCJ

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by FAM

Here's an idea that would work to get around this problem. When you do your search you get the list of returned items. If you right click on the item you want to read and then select "Open in new window" it will open a new browser window to let you read the item. And it leaves the search results window alone.

hth,
Fred

That would work for me and you and not loosing the searches we have already performed. But, what about the thousands of others that are trying to search, if they don't read this the system will still be clogged up. I sincerely appreciate your input and if I ever use the search again it will be this way. Still, the software needs to be fixed.

Wooders

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Regardless of the number of users or any other excuses - the search is extremely poor.
I'd guess that 60-70% of the time I attempt to use it I'm advised It's unavailable....Yet this is often at the very quietest times since the most of you are asleep when I'm searching.... :banghead:
Then the quantity of "finds" is well below what I'd call acceptable - even searching for common terms & trying to refine it only marginally help.... :banghead:

Overall I give the search function a big http://jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/icons/icon13.gif

JEEP_TJ_FREAK

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by RocknTJ

That would work for me and you and not loosing the searches we have already performed. But, what about the thousands of others that are trying to search, if they don't read this the system will still be clogged up. I sincerely appreciate your input and if I ever use the search again it will be this way. Still, the software needs to be fixed.

I am pretty sure all the geeks are doing just that but how do you plan on deploying that to all the newbies and guests??

Ron Short

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

I would search for what the status is....but...

Can someone please tell us when the search function shoud be available.

THANKS

TJx2

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

It comes and goes.... hit or miss.

marley28

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

That's the best response we can get from a moderator? :rolleyes:

robobx

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

It only seems to work for me in the middle of the night! like 4 am.:rolleyes:

marley28

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by TJx2

Got news for ya.... we don't get anymore info than anyone else. Heard here in Forum Support something about a new drive in late August, but nothing since. It's not like we mods all have secret batphones to call for updated information from the commisioner.

That sounds sad, they don't even update you guys.

I read about the RAM drive swap and thought that swap was complete, and just assumed it was still the software causing the problems.

TJx2

08-18-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by marley28

That sounds sad, they don't even update you guys.

I read about the RAM drive swap and thought that swap was complete, and just assumed it was still the software causing the problems.

I may have missed a post or a PM, but I don't think anything has been said to us as of late... of course, I am unsure if any of us has asked either! :D

If I hear something, I will be more than happy to pass it along if the admins overlook doing so.

BigDaddy

08-18-2002, 11:50 PM

I think you should be able to download the archives. This would allow you to search using your windows search locally.

I would be willing to host the location for downloading the archives so it wouldn't affect the performance of the BBS.

RocknCJ

08-19-2002, 12:24 PM

I have got some questions.... since we are on this forum now...

How come the search just started screwing up with the new software "upgrade"?

When is the search going to be fixed? (BTW- Unless you changed the servers to slower ones when you "upgraded" the software, then it is not the server's problem).

How come Frank's thread got mated to this one by the moderators? also, why was there no notification that this thread was moved? or where it was moved to?

TJx2

08-20-2002, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by marley28
That's the best response we can get from a moderator? :rolleyes:

Got news for ya.... we don't get anymore info than anyone else. Heard here in Forum Support something about a new drive in late August, but nothing since. It's not like we mods all have secret batphones to call for updated information from the commisioner.

08-20-2002, 03:08 PM

I sent an email a couple weeks back. I was told that even when the search is working, but busy, we'll get the "search function disabled" message. Nice, huh?

Webtech

08-20-2002, 05:44 PM

an open letter // request for feedback:

SEARCH
is the largest UNRESOLVED support issue

SEARCH
is slow because the SEARCH INDEX is so big

SEARCH
index is SO BIG because somebodies lobbied CHRIS HENRY,
way back, to have the MILLIONS posts on the system
indexed DOWN TO 2-LETTER-STRINGS
(so they could search for "CJ", "YJ", and "OJ" ???)

Isn't that silly, searching for "CJ" in a Jeeping forum ?!?
(IMO, it's about as silly as visiting the IRS website and searching for "tax")

TO get the search "working" (instead of overloading the server and cutting out),
we REALLY need to revert to using a 3-letter-minimum for search terms...

...and should PROBABLY even exclude names of body styles, like "Wrangler".
If you want to search for Wrangler threads, search within the Wrangler forum (and or its archive).

With or without the above in mind, I believe we should split the forums even further,
in existing subforums where considerable overlap currently exists. Yep, you might need to
search twice (2 separate subforums) to find "stuff", but they'll be two 5-second searches
rather than the status quo, which has been called a painfully-long-search-when-its-even-available

C'mon ~~ somebody post a poll on the subject!
We'll circulate the poll among the forums, create a HUGE thread...
...and see if we can "get the search back (on track)"

Dimebag Daddy

08-20-2002, 06:47 PM

Since JU is now under corporate sponsership(not saying its a bad thing), but it should have enough resources to purchase the hardware necessary to make the software function the way it is.

tj2kbob

08-20-2002, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by TJx2

Got news for ya.... we don't get anymore info than anyone else. Heard here in Forum Support something about a new drive in late August, but nothing since. It's not like we mods all have secret batphones to call for updated information from the commisioner.

What, no batphones!!! How did anyone call Batman ah er Bling ah whatever his name is this week?? :D

marley28

08-21-2002, 12:05 AM

LOL

I think they're embarassed to admit the server upgrade was a failure, so instead they delete any thread mentioning a problem with the forums. I've replied to 3 or 4 in the forum suggestions that have been deleted, I don't think they like suggestions very much :eek:.

I just wish they would fix it, and keep us posted about it instead of pretending nothing is wrong :rolleyes:.

Drew

08-21-2002, 12:24 AM

All of this will take time. I do notice that since it was down last night the "performance" is a bit better. It was getting REALLY bad up until then. Once the new software is up to speed (literally) the features of it really show how archaic (sp) the old software was. There are a TON of settings and tweaks for the new software.
Anyway.........Hey isn't this off topic???? No wonder your your threads are deleted:D :D
Doug

DH350

08-21-2002, 01:19 AM

The thread was not deleted but rather merged into another thread in the user forum and suggestions page.

As for posts getting deleted related to the search subject. The same repetive subject matter does not need to be repeated by every member of the board. Unless it has some usefulness the thread will be deleted as appropriate. We all are suffering without the search and the admins know it but to beat them down with repetive threads is not helping the matter.

This whole situation will take time and patience. God knows I would love to have the search back up, but I also know that the problem is being resolved as quickly as funds are available.

CeeJay

08-21-2002, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by JasonTJ
Since JU is now under corporate sponsership(not saying its a bad thing), but it should have enough resources to purchase the hardware necessary to make the software function the way it is.

We do, and we are. Everything is being scheduled as we speak and should be completed by September.

mdemic

08-23-2002, 10:29 PM

Would deleteing a bunch of useless posts help any?? If you could get a bunch of people to go through and weed out all the carfax requests, picture threads where the links are dead, and some of the eleventy billion tire size/lift questions, would that help any. How was the database indexed prior to the upgrade? These problems were nonexistant prior to the upgrade. I'd be willing to help sort through some of the old clutter. I'd also be willing to work on a FAQ document that could be distributed to new members, permantly sticky, or available in the unlimited sections. Just thinking out loud.

Dimebag Daddy

08-26-2002, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by CeeJay

We do, and we are. Everything is being scheduled as we speak and should be completed by September.

Good enought for me.:)

Keep up the blatantly satisfactory work;) :D

Oh and add the :flipoff: smiley, purdy pulease

selph

09-02-2002, 12:28 AM

http://dp1web7.dotphoto.com/ShowS8.asp?M=290081&F=i6989F316-7016-4E48-AE4C-EA2812A48FBA.jpghttp://dp1web7.dotphoto.com/ShowS8.asp?M=290081&F=i6989F316-7016-4E48-AE4C-EA2812A48FBA.jpg

Mark Stamper

09-02-2002, 12:53 AM

what I do not understand is that the search worked great before the upgrade.

Mark

DH350

09-02-2002, 02:29 AM

The way I understand it Mark is that VBB has eaten up some resources on the server that UBB did not. As of this moment the search should be up and working unless otherwise stated by webtech or CeeJay. Give it a shot and let the proper people know your results.

RocknCJ

09-02-2002, 03:09 AM

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME TO THIS THREAD?

Since the darn thing was merged with another thread I cannot go back and Edit my post to unsubscibe. I keep getting the following page: http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/editpost.php?s=&action=editpost&postid=2331564

Whoever decided to merge this is way out of line. There should never be a case to do this.

dan2ktj

09-02-2002, 04:18 AM

The search term you specified (yj) is under the minimum word length (3) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.

If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific.

"YJ" was part of a search containing other words both over and under 3 characters. I can't believe we can not include a Jeep model ID to narrow the search.

Yea... I was surprised the search was working too.

Webtech

09-02-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by RocknTJ
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME TO THIS THREAD?

Since the darn thing was merged with another thread I cannot go back and Edit my post to unsubscibe. I keep getting the following page: http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/editpost.php?s=&action=editpost&postid=2331564

Whoever decided to merge this is way out of line. There should never be a case to do this. First of all, you don't need to "edit a post" to unsubscribe from it.
If that were necessary, how would anyone who had subscribed to the thread
without having been a participant in it, unsub from the thread???

Second, if you are subscribed to this thread, you already WERE subscribed to it prior to the merge.
If you had been subscribed to another thread, one that was merged into this one...

...vBulletin would have "dropped" your old subscription during the merge process,
because (technically) the original/source thread ceases to exist as a result of the merge.
(note: I just verified this, immediately prior to posting this 'support' reply)

To unsubscribe from a thread:
Click the UserCP button.
~~ all your SubscribedTo threads will be listed there, with an "unsubscribe" link for each.

There should never be a case to merge threads ???

I could point out MANY situations (types of situations) that merit, or even necessitate, merging.
If I spent an hour typing an essay on this... after reading it, you might still be unconvinced.

If you care to start a new Suggestions/Support thread
(call it "Merged Threads are a Annoying" ?)
anyone interested can discuss the merits/annoyances of merging there.

Curt

09-03-2002, 12:43 AM

slander

09-03-2002, 01:51 AM

"The search term you specified (tj) is under the minimum word length (3) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.
If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific."

why cant i search for TJ???? i need some tj flare info and i cant find it, i actually got the search to work, Who got this idea to limit the seach terms to 3 letters?????

MelbaToast2000

09-03-2002, 10:21 AM

Come on! You honestly want to do a search for yj or tj?

Why do you think the search never worked?

Wind_Danzer

09-03-2002, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by MelbaToast2000
Come on! You honestly want to do a search for yj or tj?

Why do you think the search never worked?

The rest of you bitching about the search using 3 letters, come on. The search is horrible, especally when using a search as broad as "TJ" or "YJ or "CJ". :rolleyes: Are you guys the same that come into the forum and cry in a new topic tried searching but didn't get what I'm looking for w/o telling the group you only typed in "TJ" or "YJ"??? How hard is it looking for "tj flares" to type "tj flares"???? For christsake man, I want to see the function fixed, not always bogged down.

With my opinion stated, here's webtech's pulled from another "search" thread on this forum:

an open letter // request for feedback:

SEARCH
is the largest UNRESOLVED support issue

SEARCH
is slow because the SEARCH INDEX is so big

SEARCH
index is SO BIG because somebodies lobbied CHRIS HENRY,
way back, to have the MILLIONS posts on the system
indexed DOWN TO 2-LETTER-STRINGS
(so they could search for "CJ", "YJ", and "OJ" ???)

Isn't that silly, searching for "CJ" in a Jeeping forum ?!?
(IMO, it's about as silly as visiting the IRS website and searching for "tax")

TO get the search "working" (instead of overloading the server and cutting out),
we REALLY need to revert to using a 3-letter-minimum for search terms...

...and should PROBABLY even exclude names of body styles, like "Wrangler".
If you want to search for Wrangler threads, search within the Wrangler forum (and or its archive).

With or without the above in mind, I believe we should split the forums even further,
in existing subforums where considerable overlap currently exists. Yep, you might need to
search twice (2 separate subforums) to find "stuff", but they'll be two 5-second searches
rather than the status quo, which has been called a painfully-long-search-when-its-even-available

C'mon ~~ somebody post a poll on the subject!
We'll circulate the poll among the forums, create a HUGE thread...
...and see if we can "get the search back (on track)"

dan2ktj

09-03-2002, 10:10 PM

WD you've gotta be ****tin' me!

You are complaining about the content that people are searching for? Then YOU can go through the archived TJ/YJ posts and manually sort them into to separate searchable databases so I can search the "Wrangler" forum and not have to manually sort through irrelevant search returns. Thanks for your help!

A database search should be capable of filtering your number of returns by allowing the user to be as specific as possible. The application, operating system and hardware should be of sufficient quality to support a well defined user request. You can't blame the user here!

slander

09-04-2002, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by MelbaToast2000
Come on! You honestly want to do a search for yj or tj?

Why do you think the search never worked?

okay search genius how the hell am i supposed to search for tech info on "tj" flares ohh im sorry 97-present wrangler flares on my 87-95 wrangler info??? Idiot.

MelbaToast2000

09-04-2002, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by slander
okay search genius how the hell am i supposed to search for tech info on "tj" flares ohh im sorry 97-present wrangler flares on my 87-95 wrangler info??? Idiot.
Be more specific than just "TJ flares". What do you want to know about them? Do you want ALL information pertaining to them?

Be prepared to read the results and get the information you need and disregard the information you don't.

slander

09-04-2002, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by MelbaToast2000
Be more specific than just "TJ flares". What do you want to know about them? Do you want ALL information pertaining to them?

Be prepared to read the results and get the information you need and disregard the information you don't.

well since i need info on the front flares, how am i supposed to get it with just "front flares"???? i would get more usless posts than with just tj flares.

Platinum52

09-12-2002, 10:02 PM

Yup, search doesn't work for me either right now, so I figured I'd chime in. When I click "search" everything seems normal, but after I punch in keywords, and it just sits there for about 30 seconds, it goes to the "sorry search is unavailable due to high system loads" screen again.

LeadFoot

09-15-2002, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by slander
well since i need info on the front flares, how am i supposed to get it with just "front flares"???? i would get more usless posts than with just tj flares.

Brace yourself, idiot. :rolleyes: I did a search for YJ to TJ flares, and BOOM!! Utterly amazing, isn't it?

http://www.bc4x4.com/pv/yj/tjflares/default.cfm

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2001/tjflares/

:rolleyes:

ceo_of_the_sofa

09-16-2002, 12:45 AM

webbie said something about this in another thread in here.

basically it was that under 2 character searches weren't being allowed for now due to system loads(?, i think that was the reason).

dan2ktj

09-17-2002, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by LeadFoot
Brace yourself, idiot. :rolleyes: I did a search for YJ to TJ flares, and BOOM!! Utterly amazing, isn't it?
http://www.bc4x4.com/pv/yj/tjflares/default.cfm

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2001/tjflares/

:rolleyes:

Who's the idiot?... you're searching off the JU forum :bopeyed: duh!

Was that EVER the subject here... nope!

milous

09-18-2002, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by Platinum52
Yup, search doesn't work for me either right now... The "Search" has been an "unfixable" problem for nearly 4 months now. I don't even bother trying to use it anymore.

Pat Dougher

09-21-2002, 01:17 PM

Now, whenever I want to search for something, I go over to NAGCA.com. The search feature over there works great, and there is alot of useful information.

rhd413

09-25-2002, 10:05 PM

is there anyway to set the search to search all the forums at once? I know I for one sometimes have trouble finding my own posts, due to being pushed to another page or whatnot, and the only way I can find them is to search, and I have to keep searching in each forum. It just get's old after a while. Plus I'm sure we could al benifit from cross forum searching. I'm not saying make this the only way to search, just add it to the pull down menu with all the other forums. Thanks

TiggersBounce

09-25-2002, 11:04 PM

Look at the footer of your own post. See where it says
Profile PM Search etc etc
If you click on 'Search' you will find more posts by the author .. which in this case would be you. Cross-forum, find only things you have responded to.

Problem is it is 'intensive' use of server and doesn't work when things are very busy. But try it sometime when things are slow just to see.

jeepingnet

10-02-2002, 02:08 AM

I know my idea might be alittle crazy (its late here and been coding for the last few hourse)

But I think the search is one of the most important things on this site and I hate it when its down so I got thinking tonight.. Obvously all the data is kept in a database of some sort so what if you had a seperate search function on a different box with an image of the database. People could search the database without effecting the normal JU and when they find what they want it then links them back into the forum.

I know this solution costs money but it would solve the problem

Heck maybe even if your found some way to get each post into google :) Sure be a great way to advertise.

BTW I think you are guys are going a great job and keep up the great work.

Wind_Danzer

10-09-2002, 08:52 PM

WILL SOMEONE FIX THE FAWKING SEARCH.

This has been your weekly reminder, please go back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Thank you.

kyle92xj

10-23-2002, 01:36 AM

please dont close this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

well anyways ... since search is always chaos on here and it will never work ...

well i said since that is a case and 30 k plus ppl are members....how bout JU say that we each pay a dollar so they can do something to make the

SEARCH FUNCTIOn to work ................ at a better chance of actually getting one out of the site so we can look up stuff

a dollar ...for this site...or even 5 dollars .... like a porn site ... from every one <5 bucks can stretch to be used for a lot of good things on here.....

THANKS if u dont close this!!!!

AsylumNut

10-23-2002, 01:57 AM

Just so they cherokee people can see what I posted over on the CJ forum...

Well I highly doubt that Jeepsunlimited, aka 4WDH needs $1 dollar from each of us to make the forum work. Do you really think that they need $30,000 dollars to make the fourm work? Or even $5 dollars from us, which would be $150,000 :not4me:. How about like $.05? :rolleyes:

Edit: I also don't think it's right for them to start charging us to use the forum.

XJ Hunter

10-23-2002, 02:04 AM

NAXJA doesnt charge but encourages membership. and they arent owned by a multi million dollar corporation either :D

Hunter

PhatYJ

10-23-2002, 02:04 AM

Now Kyle, why did you go and post this thread? Did you not understand what I wrote in the PM?

People, this topic has been worn out and ran over millions of times, especially in the Off Topic and User suggestions forum where it belongs in the first place. New hardware for the site is already in the works, so this topic is useless.

Kyle, I will be closing this thread, this type of BS always causes hate and discontent, and I will not be having that on my forum.

You must post your questions in the User Suggestion forum if you would like to get more feedback on this topic that has already been wore out.

Wind_Danzer

10-25-2002, 04:10 PM

Will SOMEONE fix the fawking search!!!!

Thank you for your time.

Oman Jeep

10-26-2002, 11:52 AM

Guys... Just be patient... if you can't find what you want, give it a few minutes....

90% of the time it works perfectly for me. For that other 10% I've never had to try more than 3 times...

It ain't gonna kill ya... New hardware is on the way...

Just be patient....

:headpop: :)

norcaljr

10-27-2002, 03:59 AM

new hardware and bandwidth :agree: :agree: :agree:

Platinum52

10-30-2002, 12:40 AM

sorry about posting another search question - i'm sure there are more of them around and I'd find one and post in it but.............the search doesn't work.......

It works one second, then not the next, some days it's just hopeless, and some days i have no problems

Is there a hope in the future?

Webtech

10-30-2002, 01:01 PM

In reply to your question, I don't know what else/new can I add,
beyond what I've already stated previously in other Support threads, so...

Let's try this:
I'll paste my previously-written private texts here, in this thread.
-=-
Maybe this over-the-shoulder review of my analysis of the problem
along with copies of my monologues and correspondence
on the subject of what the hell to do about it
will inspire one or more PHP/MyQL gurus within our membership
to assist in coding a solution.
-=-
If you ARE one such guru, please contact me via PM.

MY support request, posted to the vbulletin.com support site on 9-22-2002,
in a thread titled "search feature: ongoing questions and worries":

I'm convinced that something is wrong with the vBulletin search algorithm (as of v2.2.7) and/or the underlying db schema, and offer the following as "proof":

During the past 2 months, I've tweaked our MySQL conf, php.ini,
and Apache httpd.conf countless times, trying to eliminate
anything else which might be a/the limiting factor... and it all
comes back to (down to) continual I/O bottlenecks from MySQL
threads reading vBulletin's halfGig+ searchindex.MYD and related
tables, with everything queueing up behind them.

THE SEARCHINDEX SHOULD NOT BE THIS LARGE.
-=-
SOMETHING _MUST_ BE WRONG WITH THE REGEX // PREG LOGIC USED IN BUILDING THE SEARCH INDEX!

I'm currently rebuilding the search index (for the nth time).
After emptying the prior (via the vbb adminCP interface) and before rebuilding,
I checked the WORD table, realtime, as it began filling ~~ looking for too-frequent words which would merit exclusion from the index (badwords array elements).

Hooboy! I went away for 12hrs and came back to find 560,000 records in the WORD table (and that about a third of our 2million posts had been indexed at that point). "There aren't that many words in the English language, dammit!" (I muttered) and started poking for answers.

I paged through the first 10,000 (or so) entries in the WORD table
e.g. SELECT title FROM word where wordid>1000 and wordid<2000;
and they were all CRAP ~~ non-words, with leading "punctuation" chars
( $something, &something, %something, ...something, *something, 45bucks,and even a.m )
!!!

"Oh, but these won't ALL actually be referenced in the searchindex table, right?!?" I wondered.
WRONG!

mysql> select distinct wordid from searchindex order by wordid limit 500;

I picked several to check, f'rinstance searchindex.wordid = 2737
and then double-checked (xrefed) them in the WORD table:

mysql> select wordid,title from word where title like '$%' limit 500;
+--------+-----------------+
| wordid | title |
+--------+-----------------+
| 2737 | $$ |
| 5639 | $$$ |
| 14701 | $$$$ |
| 14613 | $$$$$ |
{ snip }
| 215960 | $$$$$$$4 |
| 568393 | $$$$$$.tia |
| 219585 | $$$$$$s |
| 571997 | $$$$$...help |
| 194704 | $$$$$110.00 |
{ snip }

Not only is this "non-word" IN THE SEARCHINDEX, it's referenced THOUSANDS of times!, vis:
select count(wordid) from searchindex where wordid=2737;
+---------------+
| count(wordid) |
+---------------+
| 2477 |
+---------------+

What I'm saying (accusing?) is that although search phrases are being explode(ed) into words ~~ and punctuation stripped ~~ at runtime, NON [A-z][0-9] CHARS ARE CLEARLY NOT BEING STRIPPED (ref: vbb.word.title) WHEN THE SEARCH INDEX IS BUILT!

The 900 (or so) "badwords" ARE being excluded, but these exclusions are tip-of-the-iceberg-insignificant in the scheme of things here.

Maybe the REGEX is okay. Maybe addslashes(htmlspecialcharacters(searchTerm) just needs to be called later, or stripslashes-ed before being checked? Whatever.

PLEASE don't put off fixing this until v3.0
This problem has kept many of us vbulletin administrators chasing our tails for months!

Note:
The response, by the vBulletin developers, was NOT encouraging.
Basically, they admitted to having "castrated" the search's underlying indexpost() function ~~ as of vBulletin v2.0...
..."apologetically" stated that they didn't intend to release a "patch"
for the code...
and indicated that the issue will not likely be addressed prior to the (Jan 2003?) release of vBulletin v3.0

:swear:

Webtech

10-30-2002, 01:05 PM

excerpt from JU Moderator's forum
message titled "Where do we search from here?" (PartOne)

Attn JU Moderators:
This is an "informational" post. Your feedback is welcome, but isn't expected.

background
With a body of knowledge as large as that contained within the 2 million+ cumulative messages in our forums, "search availability" is critical. Without it, (we) users would simply drown in the sea of information.

We're thoroughly "invested in" the vBulletin software as a platform at this point, and it's becoming apparent that vBulletin "isn't scaling well" in terms of search performance. Several people (technically-inclined JU members) have pointed the finger at MySQL, the database server on which vBulletin runs, at being the problem. I'm convinced that's not (yet) the case; MySQL is in wide use & many single-server installations using it squeeze a lot more performance (in terms of queries processed per second) from it than our our forums implementation does.

Our MySQL database server processes an average (!) of 55-60 queries/transactions per second. I've talked to other vBulletin admins & have learned that some installations push the db to 70-75 queries per second, without becoming hopelessly "bogged".
-=-
User patterns/habits within each forums installation have a much greater impact on system performance than the quantity of posts in an installation. Our site just happens to contain a lot of "reference" material, and our users search the content much more frequently than those on many other (chatty) forums ~~ forums which "seem to be" as big or bigger than ours, in terms of membership or total posts.
-=-
The bottom line here is that the vBulletin/MySQL platform should allow us plenty of room for growth, providing that we (I?) can tackle the "search monster".

the status quo
Like most every other feature in vBulletin, the search function is "customized" to suit the individual user. When you perform a search, it's YOUR search... and contrary to what I publicly posted/suggested in the "FAQs/TIPs" subforum, vBulletin DOES NOT FORGET/LOSE your search results if you navigate to another page and return to the search page.

If/when/ in case you DO return to perform an identical search, or you just use your browser's Back button... it already has the dataset from the previously-run search, stored in a database table. Every time a search (any search) is performed, the first operation by the vBulletin search module code is deletion of anyone else's search records (yours/mine/any) in the results table that are more than a week old. Next, it references your previous searches & if it finds an IDENTICAL run, it references the time/date of that previous identical search... and proceeds to ONLY search messages posted SINCE that time.

The "search post since last time and update the resultset with them" is a pretty clever/efficient approach, but the overall principal that "a particular search resultset belongs to a particular user", in terms of performance and efficiency, is a terrible (but necessary) construct.
-=-
Who-owns-which-search-resultset is NECESSARY simply because of the various usergroups, with varied permissions, that comprise a given vBulletin installation. Without this, a "guest" might be shown the previously-run resultset from an administrator's search, with admin permissions and forums access applied. (not a good thing)

The plan (toward increasing search efficiency)
continued in a separate post

Webtech

10-30-2002, 01:08 PM

excerpt from JU Moderator's forum
message titled "Where do we search from here?" (PartTwo)

continued

The plan (toward increasing search efficiency)

I've already begun manually "copying" data out of the active search table into a new "holding pen" searchhistory table (data reflecting WHAT was searched, by whom, in which subforum(s), and when ----- NOT the actual {could be hundreds-long} string of threadids or postids that the search found). Soon, I'll be throwing some new code into the search module to do this automatically each time a search is run...

...and, by reviewing it, we can see what the hot/frequent search phrases are (seeing that, among a LOT of other things -- like who beats the hell out of the search, using-it-to-death). Yep, some patterns have been immediately apparent.

Patterns? So what?
Well, a critical step in overcoming the "search monster" is to get rid of "search result ownership" to some (large) extent. By identifying the frequent/hot searches, the system can be seeded with "anyone can view" resultsets and these can even be automatically updated (each night, or anytime the system load falls below a set threshhold). After that, each time someone REsearches... a nearly up-to-the-minute resultset is already onhand!

We can even go a step further (beyond storing these "frequent search" results for retrieval by anyone) and make visible links to various "hot search topics", displaying these either on the forums home page, or atop the pages within each forum.

the result

The "existing" search function will remain, undisturbed. But...

Instead of fretting over what new subforums we should have
(consider the +/- controversy over "Rubicon Discussions", for example)
we can pull from the "frequently-searched data" the hot TECH topics
that merit listing (as a grouping).

Picture a SearchResults page (I'm asking you to visualize it):
It's not much different from the TOC (showforum) page for a given forum, is it?
Placing links to these (topics, instead of just forums) on the ForumsHome page
will really improve the accessibility of, and user perception toward,
the wealth of technical content contained in the JeepsUnlimited forums.

Webtech

10-30-2002, 01:19 PM

excerpt from something I wrote during a private discussion
(I'm including it here as the "less technical, boiled-down version of "Parts1&2" above)

Although we have amassed quite a knowledgbase, it's too damned difficult to "get at" the info. vBulletin is a POS in that regard ~~ it only offers 2 choices (toward accomodating larger knowledgebases):

1) split the forums (and nest them) to "organize" the data

2) search for the data

Aw crap, there's the "S" word.

Anyhow, #1 sucks because there's often overlap ~~ poor user has to wonder:
"Is a given thread more appropriate in 'Engines & Transmissions' (because the 4.0L i wanna talk about is used in more than one body style) or in the GrandCherokee forum (cuz that's what I own)?"

Even if usenet-style crossposting were possible in vBulletin, it often yields a scenario where the user gets frustrated ~~ "drilling-down to" what seems to be an appropriate SUBforum, but not finding content they expected....

So, everybody (here) falls back to #2. We pound the HELL out of the search, and it's simply NOT designed to accomodate large installations.
-=-
The vBulletin developers KNOW the search algorithm is sad joke ~~
they admittedly emasculated the code with the v2.0 release, in order to accomodate a "worldwide market" & support multi-byte language (character) sets.
-=-
Anyhow (to make a long story short), I'm coding toward creating a new, TOPIC-centric set of links for the MainPage. Yeah, we'll still have forums,
but listed under each one will be links to previous search resultsets, showing "hot topics" revevant to each forum/bodystyle. As people search, the "dynamic" will change (semi)automatically to reflect what "a lotta people are specifically interested in" ~~ over and above, or without regard to the limitations of, the formal "subforum" structure.

Typical. I typed all that ----------^ instead of saying "Thanks. Good idea, but hold that thought..."

Actually, I don't think segregating "noobs", by splitting our General Forums into tech/geneeral subforums for each bodystyle, is a good (healthy) thing to do. EVERYONE is an expert at SOMETHING.

So, I although appreciate your awareness that we're forcing square pegs into a round container... I'm blaming the container & saying "let's change the container to accomodate all the diverse (and overlapping) special interests that fit into the overall Jeeping experience."

atlanta_zj

11-06-2002, 02:38 PM

Any word from Vbulletin on a search function problem??? The search here is and has for some time been utterly worthless. It's getting old pounding the server with ctrl-F5 until I get a search page, and I'm sure that doesn't help the servers any either. I've offered my help but recieved no reply, so now I'm just going to bitch. The only thread I've found on the matter is now closed. Looks like the last correspondence with VBulletin folks was sometime in September. Any word???
-B

norcaljr

11-06-2002, 07:24 PM

There was a thread that said something about them not working on a fix till after the 1st of the year... :rolleyes:

take a look a few weeks back in this forum.... webtech posted alot of info on the subject..

MStew

11-11-2002, 01:33 PM

every other post has people yelling at each other about not searching, well the search is a load of ****. Never, ever works the first time. Man alive can someone please address this!!!!!!!!!!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Wind_Danzer

11-11-2002, 03:35 PM

According to Norcaljr two posts below this one... it's not going to be fixed until AFTER the frist of the year.... :rolleyes:

Should have researched a little bit more before upgrading dotcha think. :not4me: :not4me: :banghead:

Neil

11-11-2002, 05:00 PM

I can only suggest at this point to try the search on off-peak hours, early in the morning or late at night when the server load is at it's lightest

norcaljr

11-11-2002, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Wind_Danzer
According to Norcaljr two posts below this one... it's not going to be fixed until AFTER the frist of the year.... :rolleyes:

Should have researched a little bit more before upgrading dotcha think. :not4me: :not4me: :banghead:

yea.. cause you know we just grabbed the 1st thing off the shelf when we were at best buy :rolleyes:

Alot of research and questions went into the admins picking this ... Its not that bad... at peak times of course it sucks.... but it will get better... just going to take some time..... If you page down a bit in this forum ..webtech explains it in detail whats wrong... and whats being done to fix it...

Jim

Trailfinder

11-15-2002, 07:19 PM

Ok I know it isn't my computer because I hear a lot of other people complaining about it..... So, what's up with the SEARCH FUNCTION?? It has been useless for several months. Matter of fact ever since the ownership of this site has changed I beleive? Is there something I can do on my computer to make it easier for the search function to work?? I know I am only stating the obvious, but without it, this web site is only 20 posts usefull. And you can only manually search back ten pages which is only like a month or two.... What about the last year and a half?????? LOTS OF DATA THAT WE ARE MISSING OUT ON...
Not only that, but with the lack of a working search function there are a lot of reposts on topics which makes this site become less usefull and interesting to say the least.

I guess what I am trying to ask is.... Is this the way it is going to be from now on or are you doing something to bring back all of the other posts over the past year+ AND make the search function work or not????
Obviously I enjoy this site and miss its old capabilities... Thanks for the vent session..

Wind_Danzer

11-15-2002, 08:41 PM

Basically it seems we have to search after 12am our time... oh wait, that's only 9pm on the West coast... that's not good. Make that 3am our time and you MIGHT get 2 out of 3 to hit.

Aren't you up everyday at 3am to search for info you need to help you out??? Come on man... get with the JU program. :rolleyes" :not4me:

Disclaimer: That's sarcasm fellow Jersey-ite, but that's the answer they'll give you.

<--------------- Check out my first announcement.

Webtech

11-16-2002, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by Trailfinder
Ok I know it isn't my computer because I hear a lot of other people complaining about it..... So, what's up with the SEARCH FUNCTION?? It has been useless for several months. Matter of fact ever since the ownership of this site has changed I beleive? Is there something I can do on my computer to make it easier for the search function to work?? I know I am only stating the obvious, but without it, this web site is only 20 posts usefull. And you can only manually search back ten pages which is only like a month or two.... What about the last year and a half?????? LOTS OF DATA THAT WE ARE MISSING OUT ON...
Not only that, but with the lack of a working search function there are a lot of reposts on topics which makes this site become less usefull and interesting to say the least.

I guess what I am trying to ask is.... Is this the way it is going to be from now on or are you doing something to bring back all of the other posts over the past year+ AND make the search function work or not????
Obviously I enjoy this site and miss its old capabilities... Thanks for the vent session..

1) the "can only search back ten pages" comment is news to me.
Are you searching "any date" or is your default (in your profile) set to show ONLY posts from the last 30 (60? 90?) days?

2) What's up with your lack of attention to the eleventy bazillion ((TM)Wind_Danzer) posts I've already placed regarding "what the problem is"? Scroll down. Read a few of the related threads on the Support forum page you've posted to. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

3) Is there something you can do on your own computer...?
Yes, actually there is something.
Once you have a "search results" page in front of you, SHIFT-CLICK the "thread title" links. If you're using MSIE, hold the shift down while clicking the link to load the linked page in a new window. After you finish reading the thread (linked to the search results page), close its browser window & shift click any other other "thread page" links you care to read.
-=-
This way, you don't have to back-forth-back & wait for the "results" page to be regenerated & sent by the server.

4) Lather, rinse, repeat.

milous

11-16-2002, 05:12 AM

A friend of mine wrote to vbulletin awhile back asking about Search problems on their software. This is the reply they sent:

What is the problem? The search function? I am not aware of any known problems with the search function. Perhaps you can be more specific about the problem. Are you getting any error messages? etc. The admin of the forums will need to contact us to troubleshoot this problem.

Please let me know if you require any further assistance.

All the best,
Jake Bunce
Support Team, vBulletin

Webtech

11-16-2002, 02:04 PM

you MIGHT want to ask your friend to specifically inquire about:

"dropping the wordsonly() function, as of vBulletin v2.0, and failing to replace that functionality with comparable code within the indexpost() function ever since... and the resultant bloat, apparent within the size of the searchindex table, in all versions since v2.0"

Also (to jog their memory):
My inquiry, along with the "latest word" in way of a reply on the subject,
by a member of the vBulletin staff, is here:
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=55301
John
vBulletin Team
09-27-2002
We have had a think about this, and due to the fact it is going to require everyone to reindex their search engine to take effect, the changes will be made in vB3 not vB2. You will have to reindex the search engine for vB3 anyway, so this can be done at the same time.

Webtech

11-16-2002, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by norcaljr
There was a thread that said something about them not working on a fix till after the 1st of the year... :rolleyes:

take a look a few weeks back in this forum.... webtech posted alot of info on the subject..

and, with my post above (referencing the actual URL of the support thread at vBulletin's support site),
I've now posted all of the info I have available.

norcaljr

11-16-2002, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by webtech
and, with my post above (referencing the actual URL of the support thread at vBulletin's support site),
I've now posted all of the info I have available.

:werd:

Trailfinder

11-19-2002, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by webtech

Is there something you can do on your own computer...?
Yes, actually there is something.
*******Once you have a "search results" page in front of you, SHIFT-CLICK the "thread title" links. If you're using MSIE, hold the shift down while clicking the link to load the linked page in a new window. After you finish reading the thread (linked to the search results page), close its browser window & shift click any other other "thread page" links you care to read.
-=-
This way, you don't have to back-forth-back & wait for the "results" page to be regenerated & sent by the server.

THE POINT HERE IS "Once you have a "search results" page in front of you" I CAN NOT GET TO THAT POINT!!!!!!:banghead::headpop: It will never give me results... Either it continues to ask for my password or it says the server is experiancing high system loads and says GO AWAY or something like that.
Even if I could get a result from the server on a search... that is a lame FIX not a solution to the problem....
** My question was and still is "Is this the way that this web site is going to continue operate or will these issues be resolved so that we can search our database effectivly that we all contribute to WHEN WE want to, not at 3AM????"
Thank you

Webtech

11-19-2002, 11:22 AM

yes.

(now it's back to you, & you can ask "WHEN, DAMMIT?!?")

(and I'll reply "as soon as possible...")

Trailfinder

11-19-2002, 11:53 AM

:slap: :hammers: :dmb: :avid: :argru2:

Just let me know when the search function works. Thanks
:beerchug:

webejpn

11-19-2002, 06:17 PM

Alright i have a few questions. You do not have to answer if you dont feel I need to know but I'm tring to put togather a bit of help if possable and need the info to better help if I can.

is ju just a hosted site somewhere or is it a coloc?

if its a coloc whats the specs if you have it?

How many hits does ju take during max peek time?

what is the server hosted on.. a t1 or what?

whats the underline os linux, bsd, some forum of unix or windows?

thanks in adv guys... i'm tring to figure out why things are the way they are..

webejpn

11-19-2002, 07:26 PM

I guess it might help if I said why I'm asking.. Reading around and seeing how search doesnt work half the time.. and that sigs have been removed.. and i even got a msg tring to send a pm that the system was busy. I guess that pretty much leads up to the fact that the server just cant handle it.. And I wanted the specs because I'm considering giving ju a coloc sun box. figure for the db the 64 bit might beable to handle the load just a bit better.

norcaljr

11-19-2002, 10:54 PM

Search issues have nothing to do with our host, connection or the server itself. Its a issue with the VBB software that should be addressed by the makers of it aroud the 1st of the year.

take a look here for more info

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=55301

http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=310693

Pat Dougher

11-20-2002, 10:16 AM

Any chance of dumping this p.o.s. vBulletin software? Hmmm... forum software that doesn't have a decent or reliable search function! I hope the vBulletin salespeople are enjoying the commissions they "earned" from selling a nearly useless product!

Pat Dougher

11-20-2002, 10:22 AM

Hell, at least if you buy non-functioning software at Best Buy you could take it back and get a refund! Hey, I'm not blaming you guys, I can't remember ever buying corporate level applications from software salespeople that wasn't AT LEAST 25% false promises of "features". vBulletin should be held accountable. There ARE other alternatives out there. Having to wait until after the first of the year to address the problem is total bull****, in my opinion. There. I feel better now :banghead:

BrandonM7

11-20-2002, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Pat Dougher
Hell, at least if you buy non-functioning software at Best Buy you could take it back and get a refund! Hey, I'm not blaming you guys, I can't remember ever buying corporate level applications from software salespeople that wasn't AT LEAST 25% false promises of "features". vBulletin should be held accountable. There ARE other alternatives out there. Having to wait until after the first of the year to address the problem is total bull****, in my opinion. There. I feel better now :banghead:

Since it varies based on server load, then the problem should go away if they had a stronger server -- so vBulletin shouldn't be credited with the entire problem...

norcaljr

11-20-2002, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by BrandonM7
Since it varies based on server load, then the problem should go away if they had a stronger server -- so vBulletin shouldn't be credited with the entire problem...

I have said it before in posts, and webtech is busy with some changes he is working on. It has to do with the search function of the software.

take a look at this question webtech posted to the makers of the software.

http://205.214.66.219/forum/showthread.php?threadid=55301

Now im no programer.. but It means that because of the large number of search requests, and how the software goes about doing to the search is the problem. The makers of the software said it was going to be around the 1st of the year when this problem is fixed. I check the search function all the time, and it seams to work about 75%-80% of the time.

BrandonM7

11-20-2002, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by norcaljr
I have said it before in posts, and webtech is busy with some changes he is working on. It has to do with the search function of the software.

take a look at this question webtech posted to the makers of the software.

http://205.214.66.219/forum/showthread.php?threadid=55301

Now im no programer.. but It means that because of the large number of search requests, and how the software goes about doing to the search is the problem. The makers of the software said it was going to be around the 1st of the year when this problem is fixed. I check the search function all the time, and it seams to work about 75%-80% of the time.

Sure, you can tell that the search function is a poorly written high-load piece of junk, but the mere fact that it works without fail during off-peak hours and rarely works during peak hours means a stronger server could run it all the time. I just think you're lucky that vBulletin is re-writing it to be less stressful - when we have similar problems here at work, we don't tell Microsoft that Exchange is a bloated piece of crap that needs to be re-written, we just get stronger equipment to keep up with the bloated piece of crap.

return_of_89MJ

11-20-2002, 05:26 PM

I might be willing to pay a $1 per month or something in order to have elite access to a members only search function... that would work all the time!!

Wooders

11-20-2002, 05:42 PM

Lucky for me - my peak times are offpeak..... There is some Jeep benefit over here afterall :brows:
But seriously it IS a pretty average attempted search...I mean it's not like the problem is new :rolleyes:

razorbak1

01-22-2003, 03:10 PM

Just about every time I try to do a search, I get this message:

The search function is MOMENTARILY unavailable due to high system loads.

Please retry your search again in a few minutes.

Is this my computer, or is the system really under high load at all hours of the day?? This never used to happen.

Thanks, Al

Webtech

01-22-2003, 04:38 PM

The problem isn't within your computer.
Recently, there have been 500+ concurrent users
(even past 11pm EST some nights)

When you're unable to access it, try it a minute later (literally. 60 seconds)
and you'll probably find it available.

additional info (in case you care to hear it):

We've tweaked and customized the search-related code repeatedly, toward improving it
(see the other Support threads regarding the search)
and we're NOT alone. Many other large vBulletin-powered forums
are experiencing this same problem. ~~~ LS1.com forums (http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=184033) , for instance.

The performance bottleneck is hard drive access. Although the JU forums
database currently resides on a 15Krpm SCSI drive, that's "not enough".
The new (hopefully soon) dedicated database server will use a striped (and mirrored) SCSI drive array, instead.

for more discussions of vBulletin search-related problems, read these, for starters:
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=224175
-=-
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread.php?threadid=1652

^------ and take note that these forums aren't nearly as large as ours!

XJonathan

01-28-2003, 06:00 PM

-=- originally posted by webtech -=-
size=1]for more discussions of vBulletin search-related problems, read these, for starters:
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=224175
-=-
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread.php?threadid=1652

^------ and take note that these forums aren't nearly as large as ours!
[/size]
Dayum, am I ever glad you don't resort to what LS1 does! Purging everything over 3 months??? That wouldn't be pretty...I'll take a sometimes-working search engine over that any day of the week!

razorbak1

02-03-2003, 03:42 PM

What about getting rid of some of the things not Jeep related, like the Off Topic forum? There are endless places on the net to BS, and free up space to make the search feature more functional.

Neil

02-03-2003, 04:03 PM

You might try hitting the "refresh" button a few times when in search. This has worked well for many users here on JU.

Dimebag Daddy

02-05-2003, 04:38 PM

This sight runs on 1 hard drive:laugh: :laugh:

15k or not 1 drive is only putting out about 16MB/sec. Raid 10 is such a waste of space. Just to a raid 5 set with as many spindles as possible. You would need like 10 SCSI drives to approach the 160 MB that the bus can support.

jccj7

02-17-2003, 12:05 AM

I guess I'll add my comment:

I have a theory on this Search feature....when I log onto the server, it detects my settings and locks out the search feature. I have not been able to search for about 3 weeks and I try even on after hours.

I considered JU as my tech support BB, but now I spend my research on Quadratec's BB.

JC

bsrober3

02-27-2003, 08:52 PM

Please increase the size of your server. The best thing about this site is the search function. It is never available though. I have seen the degradation of useful information on this site over the last year because it is filled so much with the same information. People cannot search the archives and therefore have to start a new thread.

01_Cruiser

03-01-2003, 05:49 AM

i think the server size is plenty big, people just need to learn how to use the refresh button. If the search says the server is too busy then click the refresh button a few times, its always worked for me. All you need is a little patience. :yup:

DaveRS575

03-03-2003, 06:08 PM

The search feature seems to be available less and less as JU grows. Has your server farm been growing along with the base of users, or will this continue to be an issue.

I have found that I can perform maybe 1 out of every 5 searches on average.

Perhaps it's tie to start charging people membership so that expansion can occur iof this is a necessity. As much as I like the fact that this is free, we as a community might be able to help keep JU growing. I would be happy to contribute if I knew it would help.

RuffRidr

03-04-2003, 11:42 AM

What is the specs of the server anyway? I'm curious. I'm sure a lot of other people are too.

--RuffRidr

TJx2

03-04-2003, 12:20 PM

I posted this in another thread, and I'll post it here to. I am not 100% sure i am right, but this includes the explination as I remember it... The comments about "throwing hardware at a problem" is my own based on some 12 years in the IT industry doing system design, management and implementation.

Yep. JU is JU. 4wd is 4wd. Some will never beleive that, but that is their problem. You can tell some people the sky is blue and show it to them and they will still argue that it is green with purple dots.

If I remember correctly, there is a software issue with the search thet even the publishers have not been able to track down and figure out. And if I still remember correctly, the way the license is written, the code is not "open" so that VBB owners can legally just go in and start making changes and mods to the source. No amount of new servers or increased bandwidth is going to fix that. In the IT industry, ususally the easiest thing to do to try to solve a problem is throw more hardware at it.. always has been. That doesn't mean that it is the right solution, or even a viable solution in the first place. Faster hardware does not always equate to faster software.

If the vendor can't/won't fix it and the license prohibits a user from going in and doing it themselves....

I think this was correct.. at least that's what I remember being told over the summer.

As far as "all the money that JU brings in for advertising".. the ad rates are extremely low, and there are not very many advertisers right now. I'd be willing to bet that the ad revenue barely, if at all, covers the cost of bandwidth let alone new equipment.

Webtech

03-04-2003, 02:08 PM

I had ignored the request to spell out the server specs b/c they're already listed in other Support threads...
Linux / Apache / MySQL / perl
dual CPUs -- 1GHz Athon
3Gb RAM -- PC133
(2) 7200rpm IDE drives, totaling 36Gb ( O/S, htmldocs, backup )
(1) 15000rpm 36Gb SCSI drive (database files (ISAM) )...and every time I've stated the specs, twenty people chime in with comments about what specs they think "a decent server" SHOULD be... 20-30 others send PMs, offering to sell us "improved hosting", offering to build us a decent server... :( leaving me to continually explain that I'm neither able to discuss further details nor able to entertain/recommend hosting options.

At least half of these "support" threads regarding specs & performance have drifted into arguments/diatribes concerning "who owns the site & do they care" and harshly critical observations between the growing pains (in terms of site performance) and "the good old days, when Chris Henry owned the site".

Chris Henry sold the site. Deal with it.
What we're all stuck dealing with is the fact that Chris spec'ed and built the current webserver, promising the new owners that it would perform satisfactorily & meet growth needs for 12-18 months. :naw:

In terms of policy & daily operations, JeepsUnlimited is largely autonomous.
We're an advertiser-supported (free to members) website; that's our business model.
We've operated "in the red" continually since the time the "new owners" acquired us,
so I'm not entirely surprised they've dragged their feet in funding new webserver hardware.

Hey, it's March 2003... and we were "promised" a new server last fall!
Yep... and I can apologize (again) for the delay, but that won't make your pages load any faster.
Shrug. When I have "new server news", I'll sure pass it along.

Webtech

03-04-2003, 03:37 PM

If I remember correctly, there is a software issue with the search thet even the publishers have not been able to track down and figure out. And if I still remember correctly, the way the license is written, the code is not "open" so that VBB owners can legally just go in and start making changes and mods to the source. No amount of new servers or increased bandwidth is going to fix that. In the IT industry, ususally the easiest thing to do to try to solve a problem is throw more hardware at it.. always has been. That doesn't mean that it is the right solution, or even a viable solution in the first place. Faster hardware does not always equate to faster software.
The vBulletin code is "open" to modification/customization ~~ that's one of it's greatest merits.
It's comprised of "open" PHP scripts, v/s scripts distributed in "Zend-encoded" (precompiled) format.

It is specifically/expressly not "open" in the sense that we are prohibited from divulging or redistributing the code.